Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson (page 8)

SnakesInTheTower

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Snakes (Rich )

Deep Blue Sea makes a telling point: Sabbath law was certainly more spelled out (as to what it meant) than any blood transfusion interpretation...after all, they DID have Sabbaths in Jesus day and they DID NOT have any such thing as blood transfusions...

and note that even a BULL was considered worthy of saving even if it meant a slight Sabbath Law violation.

flipper

CHICKPEA- I too agree that the diligence and commitment shown by Barbara Anderson has been fantastic ! The WT society needs to be exposed in anyway possible - and Barbara has certainly been at the forefront of that exposure. I'm proud of her.

MARVIN SHILMER - I agree with J Woods sentiments as well.

J WOODS- Good point you make about posting this Awake picture all over cyberspace to get the message across about how the WT society de-values life to it's own members. It does sound like it was a controlling measure that Fred Franz used in getting taking blood transfusions to be a DF ing offense. The very fact that Knorr disagreed with him- shows what a lack of harmony or sense of unity the GB really has. God only knows what is going on behind closed doors with the GB these days.

DEEP BLUE SEA- You are right. The message Barbara Anderson puts out SHOULD save people's lives- however people have to OPEN their minds to the message. People who are cult mind controlled like the witnesses will continue to close their minds and hearts up to follow men's unfounded deceptions. But people with an authentic, critical thinking mind will open their minds up to Barbara's message

JWoods

You know, it would be VERY interesting to know if anybody in the WT organization had the guts to question whether that horrible Awake cover was not in bad taste, or if this kind of crap would come back to hurt the organization. Pretty incredible that it actually made it to print.

I am pretty sure that if this had been tried while people like Ray Franz or Ed Dunlap were still around - somebody would have said "Stop this - do you people even realize what you are doing?"

PSacramento

I think that picture should indeed be the "poster child" for how the WT glorifies the deaths of innocent children.

As Jesus said, "woe to those that put a stumbling block" in front of those looking for Him and is there a greater one than the WT horrific use of a dietary restriction to cause the deaths of innocent children that are being told what they are doing is "god's will" ??

winstonchurchill

"Thousands die after refusing blood" does not equal "Thousands die because they refused blood". My point: Most would have died even if they accepted blood. Who is to guarantee that accepting blood would have saved them? How many of those would have survived if they acepted blood? Can we know? How many die after receiving blood?

Don't let -probably well founded- rejection of JW's and their policies make you blind to the facts.

Ask yourself, why do we have more and more hospitals with bloodless centers? Why Jackson Memorial, one of the 10 best hospitals in U.S. has a huge bloodless center? Why do more that 50 hospitals? Why did Baptist South in Florida go in that direction last year? Or Engelwood Hospital in NJ? Why is this a growing trend? Why more and more doctors are going that way?

I'm not defending anything, but calling to some serenity and objective analysis. Blood is a huge -huge- business. A top doctor at Baptist admitted to me the main reason why they refused to do bloodless elective surgery until recently, was it wasn't financially profitable. If JW's policy on blood is wrong (and it probably is) and extreme, don't go to the other end of the spectrum and state that blood is a miracle healer. It is not.

I think debate is good, and decisions should be personal, not imposed by JW's or anti-JW's. But I agree with who stated earlier that Barbara is not doing a big favor to her movement by holding talks sponsored by Catholic-related organizations. Let's not kid ourselves. When it comes to blood guilt and pedophile cover up, JW's got nothing on Roman Catholic church!

PSacramento

Not sure what "blood guilt" the RCC has...unless you are referring to the crusades and all that other crap, but I would hardly think that has anything to do with this.

As for the pedophile cover ups, hard to argue there.

100' of thousands of lives are saved everyday due to blood transfusions through out the world.

Those people would have died if they didn't have it, I am not talking elective surgery here.

Bloodless surgery is on the rise because we have much better technology too, we can cut and cauterize much better than even 10 years ago.

winstonchurchill

Not sure what "blood guilt" the RCC has...unless you are referring to the crusades and all that other crap

Not that far, but let me put it this way: Ruanda. And I'm not getting my facts from Awake! but from UN and ONG's. I could cite more examples, but let's not miss the point: JW's are what they are, but let's not get too close to those who are not better.

You probably know that thousands die every year due con contaminated blood. Of course, I wouldn't use that to campaign againts transfusions. But I'm just trying to have all the facts before jumping to conclusions juts out of hate for JW's.

Bloodless surgery is on the rise because we have much better technology too, we can cut and cauterize much better than even 10 years ago.

Agreed 100%. I didn't say it was because of God's blessing or any other weird reason. My point is: If medical science is trying to get away from blood transfusions because is safer and because it's cheaper, and because we have better techonlogy... are we going to glorify blood transfusions just to go against JW's?

Balance is my keyword

PSacramento

I agree that we shouldn't "become the enemy to beat the enemy", that said we need to rememeber that blood transfusions are not done for "shits and giggles" and that if they are done there is probably a very good reason for them, lets not fall into WT propgand here either.

1000's may die every year due to contaminaded blood and to getting the wrong blood type and to adverse reactions to universal blood, but if we were to look at all life saving procedures and see the rate of complications you would find that the rateis NOt out of proportion compared to them.

That said, people (when they have a choice) should be much more informed about options to blood transfusions and THAT is the key issue, it should NOT be a doctine for it is NOt based on scripture, at BEST it shoudl be up to the individual's conscience.

winstonchurchill

PS, your replies sound as if we didn't (mostly) agree, but we do. I'm just being devil's advocate to show how biased we can be if we don't watch out.

I slightly differ on the motives behind many (i didn't say 'all', or 'most') blood transfusions. Health care, especialy here in the US is business. Yes, I think too often doctors just prescribe transfusions without solid reasons.

What you say is truth about most procedures going wrong in some cases. Even vaccines under fire these days. But agreed thet we cannot just stop getting health care because of the risks.

As for choices should be individual, not imposed, i already said I agree. However if an INDIVIDUAL wants to decide based on scripture, or doctrine or on a dream he had last night, that his/her choice. No one should interfere. IF JW's want to teach their interpretation of the bible, and some people buy it, and make an individual choice, that's fine. The problem is enforcing punishment for those who don't agree.

As an example: Amish don't get vaccines. I disagree, but thet's heir choice.

Opening Pandora's Box - By Barbara Anderson

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