What/Who are the Saints?

by PSacramento 62 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    DD,

    Maybe is wasn't clear in what I meant.

    I mean that, I don't view that verse meaning that Jesus came to cause strife, violence and such to the world, that goes in contridiction to what he says in other verses, like the one I stated above.

    I think it means that he indeed will bring "disorder and conflict" between those believing in the Truth and those trying to hold on to thet old ways and to their positions of power.

    No one called the prince of peace boasts about bringing conflict, are we to view Jesus as "contridictory"?

    No, context is needed, I don't think Jesus will be "cutting anyone to pieces" while proclaiming the Grace and Love of his father, that would make him a sociopath.

    Conflict will arise, but not from Jesus, not from God and not from Christians but from those opposing them.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    The answer that I'm looking for is this, deeds or works no matter how wonderful they may appear to others, are irrelevant.

    I agree!

    Christ likeness is a condition of the heart, that ONLY comes by FAITH in Christ.

    I agree with the first part. I disagree with the second!!

    How could a Pharisee for example be like Christ? It wouldn't matter what good deeds they did (and Pharisees did many), they could not be Christ like, without faith in Him.

    A Pharisee could have been like Christ (in behaviour, not perfection!) if he had observed the Law in a spirit of JUSTICE, MERCY and HUMILITY. Even Christ commended them for their righteousness - what annoyed him was their cold spirited observance - they DID law rather than LIVING it.

    He has showed you, O man, what is good.
    And what does the LORD require of you?
    To act justly and to love mercy
    and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 7:8

    12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’ For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.” Matt 9

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    PS

    No one called the prince of peace boasts about bringing conflict, are we to view Jesus as "contridictory"?

    Jesus came to bring peace between God and man, NOT between men. That isn't "contridictory". That peace can only come on the basis of His righteousness, no one elses.

    Sad emo

    He has showed you, O man, what is good.
    And what does the LORD require of you?
    To act justly and to love mercy
    and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 7:8

    That's what is required, that's the law. To bad for mankind only Jesus is able to do"what is good".

    Rom 3:19

    Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- 22the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:

    What you don't seem to understand is that MAN (ALL MEN) is DEAD in trespasses and sin. Without faith it is impossible to please God! (Heb 11:6)

    Rom 3:10

    as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

    A Pharisee could have been like Christ (in behaviour, not perfection!)if he had observed the Law in a spirit of JUSTICE, MERCY and HUMILITY. Even Christ commended them for their righteousness - what annoyed him was their cold spirited observance - they DID law rather than LIVING it.

    A Pharisee's heart is evil, they believed they could save themselves by keeping the law (just like the rich young ruler or anyone else for that matter).

    That's the whole point, no man is able to observe the law in "a spirit of JUSTICE, MERCY and HUMILITY." What kind of righteousness comes from a man? The only righteousness a man can have without faith in Christ, is self-righteousness, "self" being the sourse. That doesn't sound very humble does it?

    We really agree, what Christ hated was the heart condition of the Pharisees. They did only what they thought they needed to do to keep God off of their back. Instead of living the law by faith.

    Gal 3:23

    Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

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