by PSacramento 62 Replies latest watchtower bible
PS
One can argue that, in his lifetime, Ghandi was far more "christian" then the vast majority of christians out there.
Are you suggesting God was so impressed with Ghandi's works that he doesn't need Christ. That implies Christ died for nothing.
Even Old Testament saint's (like Rahab) needed faith in the promise of Christ's first coming. Faith in the promise of a Messiah is what caused them to do the works they did.
I very valid question, James stated that Rahab (SP?) the prostitute was righteous because of her acts.
One can argue that, in his lifetime, Ghandi was far more "christian" then the vast majority of christians out there.
How will God view that?
They are both sinners.
However, Rahab is saved because of her faith and is a saint, like all of us who believe
Hebrews 11:31 Romans 4:5 Romans 4:9 Romans 4:13 Luke 7:50 Hebrews 11:4 Galatians 3:11
As for Ghandi, who knows? One day we all will.
All the best,
Stephen
The vocabulary of "holiness/sanctity" in the Bible has a double background. The Semitic root qdsh refers to the "sacred," without any "moral" connotations; the gods are qdshym, the temple is qdsh, the temple prostitutes are qdshwt... But Israelite prophetism (Isaiah etc.) has moralised this basically priestly notion. The very choice of hagios rather than hieros as a Greek equivalent to qdsh in the LXX and the NT (except for the temple and priests) reflects this mix of sacrality and ethics (as well as a will to separate Jewish and then Christian "holiness" from the "Gentile/pagan" concept of "sacred"). Still, the sacral roots are perceptible, especially in Paul: the "saints" or "holy ones" in the most embracing sense (all Christians) are "sanctified" because they belong to God in/through Christ/the "Holy" Spirit. It is a communitarian rather than individual notion (like in some Qumran texts, or the Jerusalem "saints"). But the notion also combines with moral exhortation. To Paul Christians are "holy ones" by definition so to say. It doesn't depend on particular moral behaviour but calls for it.
Narkissos,
I always took from Paul and his adsence of specififc in regards to the saints, that it was a general term for all those that were Christians in Christ, those touched by the Holy Spirt and as Paul mentions, only by the HS can one say that "jesus Christ is Lord", so all that proclaim AND Believe are Saints.
Now, that said, Temple Prostitutes?
Dude !!
Those who live a Christlike life even though they have never heard or don't believe the central message of the gospel maybe?
How's that done without faith?
DD - what does faith have to do with it? It IS possible to display/live by Christlike qualities - you know the ones - like love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, forgive without seeking revenge or repayment etc - WITHOUT having faith in the sacrifice of Christ.
There are plenty of non-Christians who do this:
"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
Likewise, there are plenty of "Christians" who do this:
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Faith in the promise of a Messiah is what caused them to do the works they did.
Did they have faith in the promise of a Messiah? A Messiah wasn't promised until later in history. Rahab wasn't even one of the chosen people, how could she have had faith in a Jewish Messiah? In fact, reading the account, she was 'merely' negotiating with the spies to save herself and her family - and working within God's will - as opposed to turning the spies in. I might hazard to guess that they had faith in God's power, justice and mercy.
Now, that said, Temple Prostitutes?
Dude !!
Matthew 21:31 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. NIV
Incidentally, Rahab was just a prostitute - Temple aside.
The Apostle Paul had quite a bit to say about God's selection process in Romans chapter 9.
Sylvia
I just didn't know there were actual temple prostitutes, those priests...they get all the good stuff !!
LOL !!
Rahab's conviction:
Joshua 2:8 Before the spies lay down for the night, she went up on the roof 9 and said to them, "I know that the LORD has given this land to you and that a great fear of you has fallen on us, so that all who live in this country are melting in fear because of you. 10 We have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to Sihon and Og, the two kings of the Amorites east of the Jordan, whom you completely destroyed. 11 When we heard of it, our hearts melted and everyone's courage failed because of you, for the LORD your God is God in heaven above and on the earth below. NIV
Sounds like faith to me!
Sylvia
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
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Colossians 1:2
2To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse
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Do these verses imply or mean that the congregation is made up of saints and non-saints? If they are not a saint but are called faithful what does that imply?
I'll say this: to my witness wife it implies two groups of christians (anointed and great crowd). I know that even the WTS doesn't teach that there were two groups in the first century but apparently that doesn't matter.
Now, that said, Temple Prostitutes?
Dude !!
See for instance the reference to them in 2 Kings 23:6-7: "And he brought out the asherah (image) that was in the Temple of Yahweh from Jerusalem to the wadi Kidron and burned it to ashes....And he tore down the house of the qdshym that was in the Temple of Yahweh, where the women were weaving clothes for (the goddess) Asherah". There is however debate on whether the term should be translated as "cult prostitute" (as opposed to "priestess" or "one set apart for sacral duties") and whether sacral prostitution even existed as such in the ANE (see Stephanie Budin's The Myth of Sacred Prostitution in Antiquity, 2008, Cambridge University Press).
