by mrsjones5 196 Replies latest jw friends
garyneal said: You're just telling me the same things the elder of my wife's KH told me. He printed a lot of information where the society quoted many secular sources confirming that something changed in 1914. But none of that references any Bible verses.
BINGO!
Hi Gary,
I just had some thoughts on this post.
I hear what you are saying and you are right, God does call us to do things that we do not understand just make sure that it is truly God and not the Society for we must 'test the Spirits' against what the Bible teaches. As I heard one preacher put, there are no prophets in the world today for we have the written word of God. So make sure you test every spirit (inspired expression) against the word of God and you will do well.
OK, have the gifts of the Spirit ceased (prophecy being one of them)?
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
So when will prophecy cease? "When perfection comes". What is that? When Jesus returns
2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, [ a ] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Gifts of the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12 are still more active than ever. Not only, it that from scripture but abundantly clear in practice.
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."
I also agree that for many things it really is a matter of concious. If you feel that celebrating birthdays, taking in blood, etc is a sin then do not do those things. There are some things the Bible clearly speaks out against (adultery, fornications, murder, blasphemy) and are not matters of concious but for other things where the Bible is not so clear (birthday celebrations) we cannot be dogmatic about it. While the Society tend to use this term more frequently than most Christians, make sure you are mindful not to cause others to stumble.
That is not to stumble other believers, first and foremost see the whole chapter of Romans 14
It is difficult in my household for I want to respect my wife's concious concerning the holidays but I don't want to totally deny myself or my daughter of them too. I'm thinking maybe I could do something special just for her that is allowed by the Society but I am not yet sure of what. Since you are the witness, do you have any suggestions?
There is a fine line between you wishing to respect you wife's beliefs and the WT imposing their doctrine on your whole household. I agree, you should bear these verses in mind.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
However, as you both are "following the bible" I suggest you point out these verses to your wife
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
If you wish to consider December 25th as more sacred than another day, it is up to you and you do so to the Lord (Romans 10:9 1 Corinthians 12:3 ).
Likewise, with your own children's birthdays, you do not wish to "consider every day alike", you do so to the Lord Jesus.
As it is written at the end of the chapter, everything that does not come from faith is sin. It is her faith that you should not celebrate the birth of Jesus or just the instruction of the WT?
First and foremost, you should ask the Lord what He wants, birthdays and Christmas right now or not?
All the best,
Stephen
pjschipper: Could I ask you: What is your testiment of knowing christ? How has having christ in your life benefited you? Being led of the spirit is key as you have mentioned, how has that improved your minitry?
The reason I ask is because I don't want to know a whole lot of copy pasted stuff, mans' doctrine, or even bible verses - that means nothing. I want to know personal testimonies - where the word of god is alive in you!
pjschipper,
I asked, "Woud you accept the imperfect men excuse if it came from a Catholic?"
You replied:
It has been the hore, excuse the bible language. That fornicated with the kings of the earth. The apostasty that was fortold. It became a learking place of demons. A use for the devil and his demons to use as a front, for teachings of false christian teaching.
You didn't answer the question, but I'll take that as a "No."
Do you believe that your god, Jehovah could fix those problems you listed and reform the Catholic church if He really wanted to?
One day someone is gonna have to explain how a person, in this case PJS, can have the knowledge and authority equivelant to Jesus to pass condemnation of a religion like he just did pn catholisism, based stricly on what he has been told by an organization that he admits is NOT perfect and with its faults !
I have many issues with the LW's religion, the parts that are refuted by scripture or at least are shown to be "debatable", but I certainly don't profess to have the power to judge them to be the "great whore" of Satan, no matter how it may seem that they have preversed the word of God and his Son Jesus.
It boogles the mind that lack of humility.
Stephen,
When I say prophets I mean like where the Watchtower claims to be a 'prophet' of God and His sole channel. Kind of like the prophets of old who can predict future events. Men today (like the Watchtower GB and former presidents) who set dates for Christs return, that is not biblical. I can't say for certain whether or not I totally agree with that preacher who claims that there are no inspired prophets but I think in terms of prophets like Daniel we don't see them anymore. I've seen people 'prophesy' in church and I would think there is much debate on whether or not that exists anymore. Kind of like speaking in tongues, some churches said they have ceased, others say they still exist today.
All I will say to any of this is that the Bible clearly says that we are not to trust every inspired expression (or Spirit) but to test it against the Word of God. If someone prophesies and says something that contradicts the Bible, that 'prophesy' did not originate from God. Remember the test for a false prophet in the book deuteronomy. Many people clearly apply that to the Watchtower. Some churches simply avoid the whole prophesying and tongue speaking altogether while others permit it.
As it is written at the end of the chapter, everything that does not come from faith is sin. It is her faith that you should not celebrate the birth of Jesus or just the instruction of the WT?
I do plan to celebrate Christmas and include my daughter. But I cannot force my wife to join us if she does not desire this. True, I am her head and can impose on her this if I wanted but I do not see the love there. Rather to have her join us freely of her own accord (as she's done in years past) than to manipulate her and force her to do it. I agree with the passage you cited from Paul (Romans 14:5-8) and I feel that is why I can celebrate Christmas, birthdays, etc.. My wife's faith "is weak" or possibly non-existent since she relies on the Watchtower to interpret the Bible for her but it would be unloving for me to force her to my way of thinking. I can encourage her to "think" and I often do, but she has to take the steps herself.
God Bless
May you all have peace!
The WTBTS teaches... and obviously dear pjschipper (the poor misguided, and seriously misled schmuck of a sheep) believes:
1914 has a great sign that Jesus cast out satan in that year, and woe for the earth. WWI and after WW III is happening. The war in the east has been greater than theses. And the signs since then are all to real to egnore. Many do not want to aknowledge these as the end of Satan's system of things. But it is here, not 50 years from now! Look at the news.
In answer to a question from his disciples, however, CHRIST said... and so I believe:
"Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your ARRIVAL/COMING (note, the WTBTS erroneously uses the translation "presence" here for the Greek word "parousias." However, they have used the wrong choice of words... which they very often do in order to substantiate their false teachings... ( http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3952&t=KJV http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3952&t=KJV) and the conclusion of the system of things?" And in asnwer JAHESHUA said to them: 'Look out THAT NOBODY MISLEADS YOU; for MANY will come... on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am ANOINTED' (not, 'I am Christ' another false teaching which the WTBTS took from those before them, but 'I am kristos'... (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5547&t=KJV... and yes, someone might think I fall into that category as well, which is why I OPENLY you who sent me... POST the scriptures/verses so that you can TEST the "inspired utterance"... and tell you how YOU can ask him to be sure yourself!)... and will MISLEAD MANY. You are going to hear of WARS... and REPORTS OF WARS; see that you are NOT terrified. For these things MUST take place,BUT... the END... IS NOT YET."
There was an initial physical fulfillment of this prophesy: when Rome occupied, then declared war against, and then conquered Jerusalem. The "completed end" STARTED with destruction of the temple at Jerusalem... and culminated with the taking of Masada. LOOK IT UP (well, no, dear pjschipper doesn't do that, which is exactly what the WTBTS wants of him. "There's NO need for you to research these things, brother -we've done it FOR you! And so, WE'LL tell you what you are to believe… and you should believe nothing and no one else.")
The second and SPIRITUAL fulfillment... WILL occur... and notice, I did not say "HAS occurred,"... when my Lord ARRIVES. Which has NOT happened yet. The PROBLEM with the WTBTS on this matter is that they have him ARRIVING... TWICE. Once, in 1914... and then again at some future time. BUT... he only ARRIVES... once.
He DID, however, make his INVISIBLE PRESENCE with us... MANIFEST. He did this after he presented his sacrifice in 30CE (not 33 CE - check his year of birth - fall of 4 BCE, based on the reign of Herod - his age at death, 30... and DO THE MATH! If he died in 33 CE, he had to have been born... in 1 CE. The WTBTS use this year, however, because (1) they are basing the "common era" on the birth of Christ, which even THEY say it is NOT... and (2) to support their FALSE teaching re 1914).
Ten days after he rose from the dead in 30CE... he entered into heaven and presented his blood as a sacrifice. AT THAT TIME... he was INSTALLED and began RULING... as king... as THE BIBLE (for those who need that) says.
Dearest pjschipper, you need me to quote scriptures/verses? Okay, here they are:
"... and after he HADbeen INAUGURATED (installed; empowered; consecreated TO office)... he BECAME(not will become) responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him." Hebrews 4:9 (footnote, NWT Ref. Bible)
Wait, let's not stop there...
"ALL authority... HAS BEEN GIVEN ME (not will be given me)... in HEAVEN... and ON EARTH." Matthew 28:18
And another...
"Look! I... AM(not will be)... WITH you(not apart from you)...all the days... UNTIL(not at) the conclusion of the system of things." Matthew 28:20
The BEGINNING of my Lord's rule has absolutely NOTHING to do with "conquering" Satan's system. Rather, it has ONLY to do with "subduing" those that were called. What does that MEAN? It means that while his enemies are still existing, one of which is ruling THIS system of things… HE… is SUBDUING those who OBEY him… teaching them… PEACE... and HOW to rule as kings/priests, which they will one day do with him.
We KNOW he began ruling... because THAT was the PURPOSE of the outpouring of holy spirit 40 days later... AT PENTECOST 30CE. That was the PROOF that his disciples were to receive that he had indeed BEEN installed.
And… and… and nevermind. Pjschipper is not my sheep… and so it is not up to me to "draw" him or anyone. It is up to our Heavenly Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. In this case, however, it is quite obvious to me that such is not the case. May JAH have mercy on him.
A slave of Christ,
SA, who apoligizes for "heaving sighs," but I just can't help it here...
we dont know the birth of christ though? Even is ones wanted to celebrate we know its october but no date.
Easter is April, Jesus was 33 and half...6months later would have been 34...october.
I ask you to consider these verses
5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Jesus is Lord Romans 10:9 1 Corinthians 12:3
Every day is Christmas and Easter in my house and we celebrate the birth, death and bodily resurrection of Jesus Luke 24:39
All the best,
Stephen
is this a Christmas conversation? The exact date is irrelevant. ROm 14:1-5 makes it clear that if one chooses to set aside a day to honor the Lord that is acceptable. It is the spirit in which it is done- is it to receive gifts? or is it to honor the Lord and give to others as Jesus gave to us.
