I have never heard of a straw man argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_Man_argument Very good point. Well, I am sure the witnesses will look at information as long as it doesn't come from ex-witnesses.
Another Trinity Thread
by AwSnap 52 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Deputy Dog
If you want to show the lies the JW's are telling,Try to find Angel Arellano's "Examining "Should you believe in the trinity?" It shows how the JW's cant quote people accurately and in context.
-
designs
Everything is 'God', for where is 'God' not., hypostatic humor.......
The old Bishops just needed quantum physics.
-
jonathan dough
I just want to be able to show that their portrayal of what "christendom's relgions" teach is not accurate. I feel like it's what I've learned, but I don't have any backup evidence. Hence, the starting of a redundant thread to sqeaze information out or YOUR brains.
I recently finished a lengthy paper (with ample citations) on the Trinity doctrine and how the JWs misrepresent the doctrine of the Trinity. Most Christians do believe in the Trinity, but most don't really understand it. For instance, they don't understand the nature of the hypostatic union, that Jesus was/is God-man, and that the "man," the creature Jesus, is not considered God Almighty and therefore He could pray to His Father without contradiction. They do not understand that "Person" does not mean a human like you or I, or that the doctrine teaches the 3 persons are not separate individuals. They do not understand that God is considered One in one sense, and 3 in a completey different sense, hence no contradiction. And they most certainly don't understand the difference between immanent and economic Trinity which is an essential starting point to any Trinity discussion. The nature of the God-man Jesus cannot be separated from the Trinity doctrine, which the JWs will try to do. At the core is the issue of whether Jesus was, and is, God, which he was and is, and there is an astounding amount of proof texts that establish this as fact.
At the least, read the first page of this material and it will go a long way to clarifying the issues. Follow these links.
1) Summary
2) Immanent Trinity versus economic Trinity; God in Himself and God for us.
6) Further articulation of the Hypostatic Union - the nature of the God-man Jesus.
20) Proof texts that Jesus was, and is, God.
JD II
-
designs
It was always the shortcoming of the Bishops, and perhaps in their time the limits and prejudices they possesed, to come up with this theory/theology.
-
PSacramento
The trinity doctrine was a way of trying to come to grasps with the New Covenant and Jesus's role in it.
Things like Jesus being Lord and Saviour and Judge, things that were God's role in the OT were now Jesus's.
The early Christians had questions, they did their best to answer them, they formulated doctrines that seem to be, for us, confusing.
I am sure for them they were just fine, certianly for many Trinitarians there is no confusion about what the Trinity means.
It may have just been (in the beginning) a way to describe the relationshipe between God, Jesus and the HS, it MAY have balloned from there, or it may have been exactly as we know it now.
-
designs
Cliques and Fraternities struggling for power and trying to squash all free thought and dissent or questions.
Sound familiar.
Monophysitism, Nestorianism, Nonconsubstantiality....oh they just had to be the "H" word, heretic. God forbid anyone saw holes in their theories.
-
yknot
I was taught that trinity in Christendom was three joined into a single godhead.
These three were all co-equal and co-eternal.
I heard pretty much the same thing from my Baptist schoolmates using the apple comparison. In Sunday School at the Episcopal Church I was told "God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit, are one God, and are called the Holy Trinity, "Three and yet one"
Here are some of the snippets I found from the WT, in order by year on the CD.....
*** w55 2/1 p. 92 Which Do You Believe? ***
Which Do You Believe?
The doctrine of the trinity, according to a noted religious encyclopedia, is that “the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent.” Yet directly to the contrary Jesus said: “The Father is greater than I am”; he called himself “the beginning of the creation by God”; and he told his followers: “I do nothing of my own initiative, but just as the Father taught me I speak these things.” In view of this contradiction, who do you believe knew the most about it, Jesus or the men who developed the trinity doctrine?—John 14:28; Rev. 3:14; John 8:28, NW.*** w75 6/15 p. 355 What the Churches Do Not Tell You ***
“The Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one: the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. . . . The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. . . . So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.”*** w87 6/15 p. 4 The “Blessed Trinity”—Is It in the Bible? ***
The Trinity is a fundamental doctrine of the vast majority of churches. But what exactly is the Trinity? The Waverley Encyclopedia defines it as “the mystery of one God in three persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, co-equal and co-eternal in all things.” Yet The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1981) says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament.” This immediately raises questions about the doctrine.*** w91 11/1 p. 21 Part 1—Did Jesus and His Disciples Teach the Trinity Doctrine? ***
1. There are said to be three divine persons—the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit—in the Godhead.
2. Each of these separate persons is said to be eternal, none coming before or after the other in time.
3. Each is said to be almighty, with none greater or lesser than the other.
4. Each is said to be omniscient, knowing all things.
5. Each is said to be true God.
6. However, it is said that there are not three Gods but only one God.*** w02 5/15 p. 6 Who Is God? ***
Yet, some religious people say that Jesus is God. Others say that God is a Trinity. According to this teaching, “the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.” It is held that the three “are co-eternal and co-equal.” (The Catholic Encyclopedia) Are such views correct?*** w05 9/15 p. 7 Who Is Jesus Christ? ***
Many religious people say that Jesus is God. Some claim that God is a Trinity. According to this teaching, “the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God.” It is held that the three “are co-eternal and co-equal.” (The Catholic Encyclopedia) Are such views correct? -
jonathan dough
Here are some of the snippets I found from the WT, in order by year on the CD.....
You're not fooling anyone, Ynot. You pretend to criticize the JWs then go out of your way to post their version of the Trinity doctrine. You're still a JW down to the core and you know it. Try posting contrary versions, not the JWs' propaganda. You keep lambasting JW literature and then you propagate it. We see right through you.
JD II
-
designs
Careful Jonathan, people may see through you....some already do.