designs
LOL! ha! ha! ha! You should talk about people seeing through anyone.
Another Trinity Thread
by AwSnap 52 Replies latest watchtower bible
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designs
How can you tell a Fundamentalist..........by a literal car up on the blocks in the front yard!
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AwSnap
I appreciate everyone's comments. Wow. Lots of reading to do. ...I need some ibuprofen after reading that 6 page thread Narkissos shared
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glenster
What I have comparing the JWs leaders' version of the pertinent verses, their
misrepresentation of the mainstream view, and the actual mainstream view for the
verses, and the same regarding related history, is on pp.6b to 10 at the next
link:
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/id18.html -
yknot
Jonathan.....
Seriously....
I merely posted what is found on the CD to give evidence of how the WTS presents Trinity in the WT since another poster already mentioned the Trinity brochure ...... I also posted my personal experience.
Personally and unapologetically I am an Arian Christian as you are a Trinitarian Christian, who knows one day we may switch teams.
We disagree .......and surely we can agree to disagree in a polite and civil manner.
I wish you peace in your walk........ but lets not continue to make things 'personal'....... if you want to discuss things privately, PM and we will.
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XJW4EVR
Their goal isn't to argue YOUR trinity. They first need you to accept THEIR trinity, then they deconstruct it. It is very disingenuous.
This is a very good point, ATJ. One of the first rules in a debate is to never allow an opponent to define your position. This is one of the reasons why I do not argue the Trinity with JWs, but instead go for directly after the authority of the Governing Body. Once the GB's authority has been undermined, then I will begin to dismantle WT doctrine in a systematic manner.
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jonathan dough
This is a very good point, ATJ. One of the first rules in a debate is to never allow an opponent to define your position. This is one of the reasons why I do not argue the Trinity with JWs, but instead go for directly after the authority of the Governing Body. Once the GB's authority has been undermined, then I will begin to dismantle WT doctrine in a systematic manner.
I agree completely, and one of the best ways I have found to undermine their authority is to undermine the notion of a literal 144,000 anointed, because there is no such thing. Get rid of that and they have nothing and lack all validity.
http://144000.110mb.com/144000/index.html
JD II
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jonathan dough
Personally and unapologetically I am an Arian Christian
Many would argue that this is a contradiction in terms, that there is no such thing. One cannot be Aryan and Christian in the traditional contemporary sense. Most Christian denominations believe this. Fourth century Arian subordinationism was the specific heresy condemned by the church from at least the 4th century to this day. It is the exact same heresy taught by the JWs and contrary to Russel's claim to fame, he never coined the idea. And because you espouse these heretical ideas you really are still a JW at heart with an agenda. You should be more up front about your motives before you lure the innocent and unknowing into your trap.
Most Jehovah's Witnesses are unaware that their conception of Christ is an adaptation and resurrection of 4th century Arian Subordinationism and theories propounded by earlier Ebionite heretics (Catholic Encyclopedia, 919). In 318, Arius, a priest of Baucalis, propounded the doctrine that Christ is not fully divine (Oxford, 1209; Encyclopedia of Religion, 54). “Arius asserted that the Son was a perfect creature, at most a kind of demigod subordinated to the Father” (Encyclopedia of Religion, 20).
The Father alone, Arius argued, … is ungenerate, source without source, self-existent. Therefore the Father alone is truly eternal…. (Catholic Encyclopedia, 297)
“Jesus must be a creature, albeit one who was exalted and achieved union with God. … Arius insisted ‘there was when he was not.’ Arius was simply fulfilling the Stoic-shaped logic of trinitarian reflection prior to Origen, for he assumed that the expressed word of God (the Son) was inferior to the inherent reason of God (the Father). (Oxford, 1209)
Subordinationism suggests “… that the Father is somehow prior to the Son and the Spirit. … It was this tendency, pursued by Arius and others, which the Nicaene and Constantinopolitan creeds set out to avoid. (Oxford, 1211)
“Arius conceded that Christ was divine; but only in a translated figurative sense of the term. In other words, He is not literally divine at all. He is the most exalted of God’s creatures, authorized by God to be His agent in the work of creation, and adopted as His Son. The Word, then, was specifically different from the Father. He is a secondary deity, subordinate in nature to, not the equal of the Father …. From Arius’ viewpoint, Christ’s coming signifies nothing more noteworthy than the arrival of another creature, the decent of a demiurge into flesh” (Catholic Encyclopedia, 919).
Semi-Arianism taught that Jesus Christ is a god subordinate to the Father, which is precisely what the Jehovah's Witnesses teach as reflected in their translation of John 1:1, “And the Word was a god” (NWT), not the “God” of mainstream Christianity.
With minor modifications, the similarities between Arianism and the Jehovah's Witnesses’ theory on the nature of Christ are striking. Their conception of Christ is not a unique revelation by the society’s founder Charles Taze Russell but reaches back 1,600 years to the first centuries. The Jehovah's Witnesses teach:
Jesus, (was) no more and no less than a perfect human. (Should You Believe, Chapter 6)
Jesus was a created spirit being …. Having been created by God, Jesus is in a secondary position in time, power, and knowledge. (ibid.)
(God) created the prehuman Jesus directly. Thus, Jesus had a beginning and could never be coequal with God in power and eternity. (ibid.)
Not only is Almighty God, Jehovah, a personality separate from Jesus but He is at all times his superior. Jesus is always presented as separate and lesser, …. (Should You Believe, Chapter 8).
In every period of his existence, whether in heaven or on earth, his speech and conduct reflect subordination to God. God is always the superior, Jesus the lesser one who was created by God. (Should You Believe, Chapter 7)
This, of course, is utter nonsense.
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PSacramento
Is there any verse that says that Jesus was created ?
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designs
Good ol Fundamentalists and their Heretic superstitions. The xjw community should know what trap lies out there with this group.
So glad they expose their nuttiness here.