Another Trinity Thread

AwSnap

Can you clarify something for me please? The JW's teach that MOST (to them, that means ALL) religions teach the trinity as being that GOD Almighty, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are Literally ONE, meaning the exact same 'person', none higher than the other, inseparable, the exact same thing. They mainly use Catholics and Baptists, in my experience. Can anyone confirm or deny this? IMO, anyone I've ever spoken with (non-jw) does believe in the Trinity, but not in the above description. While they believe they are inseparable, they also believe they are 3 separate things/people....that they are "one" (as in united). But not ONE.

The Witnesses response was: "well, sure, there are individuals who believe that, but they are just using common sense and not following the bizarre teachings of their church."

Can you confirm or deny this? I haven't done enough research to know. Have any of you had experience with this? Do Most churches believe in the 1st OR the 2nd trinity belief?

Deputy Dog

The ForgottenTrinity by James White

Great book for xJWs

leavingwt

The WT consistently misrepresents The Trinity, as believed by Catholics and Eastern Orthodox (the two largest Christian groups on the planet).

Briefly, "God" = Three Persons, according The Trinity.

Once you understand this, you realize how confusing the standard JW talking points really are to the Christian householder.

"Was Jesus praying to himself?" <----------------- The average Christian is thinking, "No, he was praying to his Father."

The JW stays on "proof texts", while the Christian doesn't even understand the JW line of reasoning, because they're not discussing the SAME DOCTRINE.

WT refutes a strawman Trinity, rather than the actual Trinity. Confusion reigns supreme.

designs

Aw,

The problem lies twofold, Witnesses are taught a version that is more akin to the Oneness teaching- see the Trinity Brochure. Second many mainstream Church goers describe their belief in a quasi Oneness fashion. Actually if a Witness studied the language and nuances of the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox views they would find a lot in common.

Chalam

No, three persons, one Godhead Trinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If Jesus prayed to Himself, that makes no sense (a point JWs are quick to pick up on) Matthew 6:9

Same issue if the Holy Spirit prays to Himself Romans 8:27

However, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God, and the three are one, see the chord of three strands Ecclesiastes 4:12

Same deal in a marriage, two people and God intertwined and pulling in the same direction, that is how it should be :)

The examples will help you in understanding the nature of God but don't expect to grasp it fully yet 1 Corinthians 13:9-12

Blessings,

Stephen

PSacramento

Before you decide to embark on the study of the trinity I suggest you embark on the study of the New Convenant and what it means and what Jesus's role in the NC is, that will clear up many things when you get to the Doctrine of the Trinity.

Narkissos

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175020/1/Clarifying-the-Trinity-Doctrine

AwSnap

Same deal in a marriage, two people and God intertwined and pulling in the same direction, that is how it should be :) Chalam, I said exactly that. The response was, "but that is individuals saying that. That is not what churches of Christendom teach. "

I do not plan on getting into the details. It would take me forever to research the pro's and the con's. I do not plan on getting into an extremely lengthy discussion with them about it. I just want to be able to show that their portrayal of what "christendom's relgions" teach is not accurate. I feel like it's what I've learned, but I don't have any backup evidence. Hence, the starting of a redundant thread to sqeaze information out or YOUR brains.

AllTimeJeff

As already noted, JW's use a straw man argument and misrepresent the trinity. Though I don't believe in it, once I got my head out of JW dogma, I could see what they try to do. The trinity is not what JW's say it is.

Their goal isn't to argue YOUR trinity. They first need you to accept THEIR trinity, then they deconstruct it. It is very disingenuous.

Chalam

The Trinity is all over the bible but this is one of my favorites

Romans 8:9-11 (New International Version)

9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

OK, the "Spirit" is the Holy Spirit. He is the "Spirit of God" (the Father) and He lives in the believer.

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

Same "Spirit of God" (the Father) is now called the "Spirit of Christ".

10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

The "Spirit of Christ" lives in the believer, obviously the same Holy Spirit. Note that "Christ is in you", Christ and the His Spirit are one and the same, as is also the "Spirit of God" (the Father).

11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

More confirmation. The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead lives in the believer.

So a quick recap, the (Holy) "Spirit" is the "Spirit of God" (the Father) and the "Spirit of Christ" (Jesus). They are all synonymous but different aspects of God which co-exist.

Hope that helps?

Blessings,

Stephen

Another Trinity Thread

Romans 8:9-11 (New International Version)

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