by Narkissos 86 Replies latest jw friends
1 Corinthians 15:26 He won't let up until the last enemy is down—and the very last enemy is death! MSG
I view death as an enemy - unfriendly, cold, hostile, adversarial.
My hope is to look the first human pair full in the face and ask them just what in the hell were they thinking!
Sylvia
Well, you have reminded me of another Marion Dunlap story. I shall have to go back to that thread and write it up later today.
These days, to me, death is neither friend nor foe. It is a natural fact of life - like the sun always having to set at the end of the day, or the transitions of the seasons. It is something that inevitably has to happen.
I worry less about death now and more about how I can make my time here most interesting, fun and memorable to myself and others. I could live for another 7 days or 70 years... I don't know... but I'm going to be buried in a forest with a smile on my face
slimboyfat,
Maybe in the end I would not want to live forever Narkissos, but I would sure appreciate more time to think about it. ;-)
How much more would be enough? What age would we ever accept as the "right age" for us to die?
"No one is older than a dead child" (Chuang Tzu).
I think it's a good thing that death just happens when it does (so far!) because if we had to pick the day it would never be today for most of us, no matter how convinced we may be of its objective and even subjective necessity. I include myself here, but not everyone, as obviously a number of people did pick the day.
Heaven, if it existed, would be "a place where nothing ever happens", yet when this party's over it will start over again, the eternal return.
Liked the song, but strangely I didn't perceive the "yet" part. As I heard it, it's the heaven non-party that starts over again, not the real life of difference (that would be the Nietzschean "eternal recurrence").
Enjoyed the poem too. If you can read French you may like Baudelaire's last piece in Les fleurs du mal.
Don't be so quick to judgement in calling people selfish who have not come to terms with death as you have, or who are still struggling with the implications. Hell you may even be wrong about the whole thing.
First, I don't think anybody really comes to terms with death until s/he dies; and what I characterised as selfish was the hypothetical attitude of people who would never get tired of themselves (I doubt they exist, but they would have to in the hypothesis of everlasting life); self-centeredness, or egocentrism, otoh, helps a lot in never learning about oneself. One lesson I learnt from Nietzsche (too late in part) is the difference between contempt and disgust. What you haven't had the courage to despise in time you're bound to be disgusted of later. And that may include much of your "self".
I like that life is finite, I often wonder that, IF god is a cruel and uncaring as some say he is (RE: the OT) that perhaps his immortality could be the reason.
Not that I view God and Jesus that way, but I do know that life is more precious when we know it is limited.
Life forever? Been there, doen that and Queen got ir right: "Who wants to live forever?"
I don't look forward to the loss of those I love but knowing that I will lose them does remind me to tell them as much as I can how much I love them.
Not having any children, some might say I've missed out on life.Do you think this affects how one sees death?
I'm sure it does. It's remarkable that in the OT the perspective of peaceful death (being reunited with one's ancestors, in old age, surrounded by one's children and grandchildren who are, in effect, the dying person's future), disappears once the notion of personal salvation (resurrection etc.) comes to the fore.
But it may be not so much the matter of having children than the ability to relate to others, who will survive you and keep something from you when you are no longer there. Children in particular, not necessarily yours.
Good points. The thought of accomplishing something that will endure even when we won't is there.
'in the OT the perspective of peaceful death (being reunited with one's ancestors, in old age,'
The ot often has them 'lying down w their forefathers' in death. Is that merely an expression that the ot jews/writers used? Or, did they actually mean that? If it was a real belief that they maintained, it opens a fair sized door to a few things. Myself,when the time comes, i'm quite sure that i will see my relatives that have died before, as i have already sensed and seen clearly some of them.
S
dubbling, again.
Exactly how old would a person have to be to achieve "monster" status?
It depends I guess. Observing the wealthy aging societies with extended lifespans and their ubiquitous obsession of safety it seems people might be getting there earlier and earlier, paradoxically.
One of the ugliest pictures I have in mind (from real life) is that of my old JW folks discussing their everlasting future in paradise, while not caring a bit about the present or future of their own (non-JW) children, not to mention that of other children and future generations. In spite of all the medical and aesthetical care I'm afraid a deathless society would not be pretty.
Is that merely an expression that the ot jews/writers used? Or, did they actually mean that?
That's always difficult to tell, due to the problematic cognitive status of mythology in general (cf. Paul Veyne's Did the Greek Believe their Myths?). As far as mythology goes (and taking in account the fact that most Biblical texts tend to tone down existing popular mythological references rather than create them ex nihilo for the sake of "poetry" as a modern writer might), I would say they did. The "shades" recognise and address each other in she'ol (cf. Isaiah 14), and the (later repressed) practice of necromancy indicates that people believed in communicating with the dead (cf. 1 Samuel 28 -- without quotation marks ;).
