bingo
ethical consequences of faking reinstatement...
by drew sagan 52 Replies latest jw friends
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drew sagan
Thanks open mind, that's a pretty good thread.
Amazing to think how subjective all of this is. To some people "beating the Watchtower" involves playing the game and getting relationships back. To others personal integrity is more important.
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Goshawk
Succinctly put drew sagan and on that comes the paradox.
In order to survive or fight a passively malevolent opponent the protagonist needs to in some ways become more like what they are fighting against in methodology and tactics.
Is the victory worth the price?
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Black Sheep
To others personal integrity is more important.
That is integrity as they personally describe it and may have nothing to do with the way you feel.
You are dealing with a cult that does not play fair, so it is entirely up to you to decide what rules, if any, you use to fight your battles.
The most important thing is to have a plan right from the start. A bloody good plan. Getting a cult member to discuss anything of consequence is like trying to catch an eel with spoon.
Good Luck.
Chris
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leavingwt
What concerns me is that your wife's parents may have considerable hopes that by returning to the Hall -- even as a scheme -- that she will somehow snap back into her "love for Jehovah". Is it possible they are hoping for this?
For, when that doesn't happen (and I don't see it happening), what will the fallout be?
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AllTimeJeff
In order to survive or fight a passively malevolent opponent the protagonist needs to in some ways become more like what they are fighting against in methodology and tactics.
Is the victory worth the price?
This is a fascinating topic for me. This last question, is it worth the price, is why I started this thread a few months ago....
To Fade Or Not To Fade.... An Opinion
I have to say, when I wrote my initial post, I was pretty certain that I was correct in my viewpoint. While I still think leaving outright is best long term for a person, I have a new appreciation for those who choose to fade. Truly, it isn't an easy decision, and it isn't one I care to judge. To me, if a JW chooses to fade, I simply offer my support. There are consequences however, pros and cons. While I no longer view my way of leaving (aka, blowing up that damn bridge) as better, I do think there are some definite benefits to consider, or at least not overlook.
The first time I ever even heard of a fade was after I left. It never occurred to me to fake it. It took me a while to understand, but I get why fades happen and are necesarry.
However, there is a lot of stress you put on yourself to pretend to espose something that you may not only not believe anymore, but even hate. (with good reason) What that does to one's mental health is difficult to quantify, but it can't help but affect someone to live "a lie". Naturally, it isn't your lie, it's you having to choose with how to deal with the JW lie.
Again, it is a serious, personal decision. I can't help but promote how I left, and I have to say, I miss my friends, but I don't for a second have to go around watching what I say, who I say it to. I can be me. In my case, my friends, and even my family, weren't worth me.
This is just one man's opinion, I hope it won't be offensive for those who chose for their own reasons to fade. Faders really do have my respect and best wishes...
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OnTheWayOut
I offer my opinion that the fake reinstatement is only for someone with nothing to lose. If JW family are shunning you anyway, then there is nothing to lose. In this case, some JW family are not shunning her. And the added problem if this blows up in their face, that they lose the contact as well as your wife losing it.
If the JW parents are on board with the deceit, and they are willing to take the risk, then it is a matter of nothing to lose (to your wife, not to her parents). If they are hesitant or you have to lie to them also, then there is something to lose.
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AK - Jeff
If the 'return' is fake, then the relationship is 'fake' also. In the meantime, ethics have been shed along with integrity of sorts if she left due to finding out the reality of the bOrg.
I considered that course myself. What I mean to say is that I 'meditated' on that course of action. I could not do it. For me it comes down to personal conviction. I would be appearing to submit myself to that which I consider putrid. That's just me. But just saying.
Jeff
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Nathan Natas
I'm reminded of the old adage, "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead."
If you undertake this plan, understand that someday it may be discovered.
...but I have to admit that I find your phrasing "ethical consequences..." amusing.
Do you think YHVH is going to find out?
Do you think the police or the FBI have nothing of greater concern to them?
Do you think the Justice League of America will take an interest? (Superman and his amigos are busy.)
No one is going to deny you a job, a passport or a movie ticket because you are insincere about your professed religious affiliation.
In fact, you'll be like 90% of church-going America, and probably 85% of JWs.
"Ethics is what you can get away with."
"'Do as thou will' shall be the whole of the law."
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drew sagan
What concerns me is that your wife's parents may have considerable hopes that by returning to the Hall -- even as a scheme -- that she will somehow snap back into her "love for Jehovah". Is it possible they are hoping for this?
In conversation with her father he has made attempt after attempt to convince me that this is not a possibility, yet somehow I simply cannot bring myself to trust them. He states that her mother has given up in wanting her to be JW, yet since she remains one how can that hope not be there? Additionally, he constantly denies that the Watchtower manipulates and influences people, going so far as to state that maybe me and my wife "put more into it that it was worth" implying that our problems were of our own making! It stuff like that which tells me that their motives are so self centered towards brining family back togeather that they have no consideration for the opinions and feelings of others.
Its not that they are bad people, but I do feel that they ignore the problem and hope for fairy tale solutions. My wife has nobely stepped up to try and do the fixing, yet I'm affraid for her own well being. Subjecting yourself to that enviroment (espeically after renouncing it so decisevly) will no doubt bring about some negative effects (or am I overreacting?)