is jesus a god?

by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi Ken,

    Here goes-will try and make some sense of it

    If Jesus is God the ransom doesn't make sense.

    For me it only makes sense if Jesus is God. What other sacrifice could cover the whole of sins of the whole of mankind? Hebrews 5:8-10 Romans 6:10 Hebrews 10 1 Peter 3:18

    God sacraficed himself to himself so he could forgive humans.

    Yes, the Father sacrificed His only begotten Son John 3:16 Romans 8:32

    How could he be David's offspring if he was God?

    Jesus asked the same question of the Pharisees Mark 12:35-40 Luke 20:41-47

    The answer is here Luke 1:35 Hebrews 1

    How could he have said on the cross or stake, "Why have you forsaken me." if he was God?

    Jesus was praying to His Father. The Holy Spirit also prays Romans 8:26-28

    The whole bible doesn't make any sense to me anymore, just a few verses here and there that could be said by a human without God involved. Ken P.

    I guess the WT has been you teacher?

    You need to read these verses until revelation comes, they clearly state who Jesus is Philippians 2:5-7 Genesis 1:1 John 1:1-3 Hebrews 1:1-3

    Revelation only comes by the Holy Spirit, ask Him to be your guide John 14:26 1 Corinthians 2:14

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • designs
    designs

    Ken,

    Your questions are normal ones, Sir Isaac Newton and Servetus asked similar questions in the heated battles of the Reformation.

    'Orthodoxy' is whirled around like a dead cat, but which Orthodoxy- Coptic, Oriental, Arminius, Greek, Russian, Rome, the Protestants...

    ...all teach a different version of Jesus from the other all the while each claiming to be the Orthodox. This young Jew got lost to mythology a long time ago.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    The belief that Jesus is God ( as in the Trinity) is NOT a requirement for salvation and as such, while itis fine to discuss and debate these things, we shoudl realise that belief ( for a Christian) that Jesus was the son of God, our lord and saviour, that he died for us and that he was ressurected and is not at the right hand of God, THAT is what is "crucial" and what makes one a Christian.

    Doing good for the sake of doing good IS the penultimate act of a christian, doing good with NO NOTION of recompense is what Jesus asked of us, that is why we are under God's grace so that NO MAN may BOAST of ANY DEED, for doing good workd should be done out of love, period.

    Doing good to honour God is all great and fine, but WHY are you honouring God?

    Look at what Jesus said in Matthew CH 25, the sheep and the goats parable, notice how the sheep even askes Jesus, "when did we do these things?", because they did them out of love with no notion of recompense or notion that they were doing it to the lord, they were acts of love and kindeness for "goodness sakes".

    One further word on Jesus's divinity, Jesus was divine, there is no question of that amongest Christians, it is he DEITY that some argue.

    Jesus said, when asked to show them the father:

    Don't you know ME Philip?

    Jesus was ONe witht he Father, all that the Father is, Jesus is.

    For all intents and pusposes, Jesus is God but he is NOT The Father, to say that he is "a" god is to diminish his perfect union with his Father.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Chalam, peace to you! Dearest Javig, may the peace of God... and of His Christ... be upon you, as well!

    At this point, I will have to leave you all to whatever it is you believe on this matter. As someone said above... we are pretty much just going around and around, now (dog chasing tail). As to who is stating the truth will be shown, but perhaps not here, not now... at least, not for some (I have NO dout that many of those "watching" DO now know the truth as to this matter). I do not need to be "right," however. My ONLY task is to SHARE...what I hear... what I am given... and who it is that gives such TO me: the Holy One of Israel, my Lord and master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy Spirit and Son and Chrrist of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

    Even HE is recorded to say that he was NOT equal to God, but thal the Father is greater. In ANY math equation, dear ones, GREATER... is NOT equal! There is LESS, EQUAL, and GREATER! When called "good teacher," he did NOT say, "You spoke correctly," as he did when commenting on them calling him "Lord," and "Teacher." He said that ONLY ONE was "good"... the Father. NOT... "the Father AND I are good." He said that he came forth FROM the Father... and that he learned FROM the Father... and that he did and spoke NOTHING of his own initiative... but only that which he saw the Father doing... and heard FROM the Father.

    He asked the FATHER's will... that not his [own] will... be done.

    AND... the SCRIPTURES (i.e., Psalms) say that the FATHER said that HE would subject all things under Christ's feet. With the exception of God Himself. And it is the FATHER... who will bring his (Christ's enemies) to nothing... not Christ. Psalm 110:1; 1 Corinthians 15:25-27

    The very Bible that so many here put their faith in says these very things and I also shared these truths with you.

    BUT... you do not have to take MY word for it... or the Bible's. You only need ask. ASK the One about whom we are all speaking. Let HIM tell you who... and what he is... rather than "searching the scriptures," of which there are SO many versions, editions, revisions, and interpretations. Ask HIM. If you have the faith to do so.

    I have asked to be done with this subject and it has been granted. I will move on. You... may continue to believe what you WISH to believe.

    I bid you peace and I remain,

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ... to time indefinite...

    SA

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear AGuest...

    "The lines have fallen to me in pleasant places;
    Yes, I have a good inheritance.

    I will bless the LORD who has given me counsel;
    My heart also instructs me in the night seasons.
    I have set the LORD always before me;
    Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.

    Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices;
    My flesh also will rest in hope.
    For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,
    Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
    You will show me the path of life;
    In Your presence is fullness of joy;
    At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore." (psalm 16:6-11)

    "The [corruptible] flesh that he had that DIED... was CHANGED... to be [incorruptible] flesh... that would never die... AG AIN."

    and I think that the psalms speak of the actual flesh not decaying...and I also think that when we get to heaven, that flesh that is ripped and torn will be just as vivid as the day it was last observed...we will see that Holy Lamb on the throne.

    "While my Lord DID indeed see corruption, in that his flesh SAW sin... AND death... he did not "see corruption" in that he was taken to pit and/or destroyed."...there is either seeing corruption or not seeing corruption.

    "So, while my Lord himself was not re-created... his flesh was… after he took to the grave the sin and death that was IN it, which sin and death he received from those he healed."...his flesh would only need to be re-created if it was corruptible...it was resurrected "as is" so thomas could "see" the wounds...fresh...incorruptible...undamaged by death...anything that death "clings" to. death where is your sting?

    "In the meantime, I cannot let myself get offended when there is opposition. And because I AM yet flesh with its blood, there is that danger. To my own detriment, and that of Israel, which is a hard-hearted, hard-headed, stiff-necked people… who can be TOUGH. So, at times, I am made to be as some of his other servants."...:).

    "LOLOLOLOL! You have it right - LOLOLOLOL! (And I TRULY hope you don't perceive me as "wagging my finger saying no, no, no... you blasphemers!!" I TRULY do not mean to come of in such a way at all!"...well, I think ya do...that's why I said something.

    "There are “earthling” men... and then there are “heavenly” men:"...you're talking to number 666...thank God!..in the flesh...

    "Yes, my spirit bears witness to this truth, dear Michelle, and I totally receive it. I love you, as well (you have always been SO kind to me!)… and bid you the GREATEST of God’s love… and Christ’s peace… you and your entire household… to time indefinite."...thank you.

    love michelle

    p.s. you are TOO kind...and about as sweet a person as my stomach can handle......xoxo

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Shelby...

    I hope you will "receive" this message "the right way"(for you)...as, I did, by means of the Holy Spirit leading me into ALL Truth.

    I said, “LORD, be merciful to me;
    Heal my soul, for I have sinned against You.”
    My enemies speak evil of me:
    “When will he die, and his name perish?”
    And if he comes to see me, he speaks lies;
    His heart gathers iniquity to itself;
    When he goes out, he tells it.

    All who hate me whisper together against me;
    Against me they devise my hurt.
    “An evil disease,” they say, “clings to him.
    And now that he lies down, he will rise up no more.”
    Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted,
    Who ate my bread,
    Has lifted up his heel against me.

    But You, O LORD, be merciful to me, and raise me up,
    That I may repay them.
    By this I know that You are well pleased with me,
    Because my enemy does not triumph over me.
    As for me, You uphold me in my integrity,
    And set me before Your face forever.

    Blessed be the LORD God of Israel
    From everlasting to everlasting!
    Amen and Amen. (psalm 41-4-13)

    love michelle

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    As to your second post, first: BIG smile! HUGE!! I got it... and I know why you were told to "send" it. Yes, it is timely and "healing." Thank you for allowing our Lord to use you... to "minister" to me. THANK you!

    As to your first post:

    and I think that the psalms speak of the actual flesh not decaying...

    Yes! Although our Lord DID die (he had to)... his flesh did not decay nor did he see the pit or destruction.

    there is either seeing corruption or not seeing corruption.

    This true... to an extent. IF the word "corruption" meant the same thing as the scribes used it in each place, your statement would be totally correct. It doesn't, though. Although the ENGLISH word "corruption" is used in BOTH places... the Hebrew/Greek words do NOT mean exactly the same thing. It would have been BETTER if the accounts had said "his flesh saw death ("corruption") and "but his flesh did not see decay "corruption")... or the pit ("corruption")." Do you see? The ERROR is that they use the word "corruption" for two different things, as if they are the same thing. They are not. (NOTE: It is exactly the same thing with the whole "god" thing: in one way, a "god" is a deity; in another sense, it is just a being that is immortal. In one place it is "God" and in another "god." Yet, in GREEK... it is the SAME word, "theos." Unfortunately, some of the readers' consciences are SO fragile... that they simply refuse to see the truth... and difference... in this regard).

    his flesh would only need to be re-created if it was corruptible...

    And it was: it had sin and death IN it... and so died. COULD die. If it were INcorruptible... it could not HAVE died. He put OFF the corruptible and put ON the incorruptible. The SUBSTANCE of his flesh... CHANGED. But not its [entire] APPEARANCE. The sinFUL flesh that he HAD... was "healed"... completely... so that it became sinLESS flesh. Flesh WITHOUT sin... and DEATH... in it.

    To help you understand this, I am to ask if you know who is "speaking" in the 41st Psalm? If your response is "the Christ," then I am to ask you how is it that he said:

    "Heal my soul, for I have sinned against You"...

    and...

    “An evil disease,” they say, “clings to him. And now that he lies down, he will rise up no more...”

    and refer you to Isaiah 52:14, 15 and 53:2-5. If your response is someone other than the Christ, I am to ask you how it is that the speaker said:

    "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, Who ate my bread, Has lifted up his heel against me..."

    and refer you to Matthew 26:24-26; Mark 14:17-20; Luke 22:19-23; and John 13:21-26

    it was resurrected "as is" so thomas could "see" the wounds...fresh...incorruptible...undamaged by death...anything that death "clings" to.

    Not quite. It wasn't resurrected entirely "as is" if that were the case, the sins/death of the people he healed/resurrected... would have still be evident. BUT... it was resurrected WITHOUT the sin and death it had IN it... when he died. He... CARRIED AWAY... such sin and death. You see, when he healed people he did so by taking THEIR 'sin' into HIS body. That is why he was... well, deformed. He looked SO hideous that (1) the people considered HIM "afflicted by God"; so much so that (2) he SAID to the Pharisees, "No doubt, you will say to ME, 'Physician... heal THYSELF"; and (3) the people who came to arrest him gasped and fell away when they saw him (due to his appearance - he looked UNCLEAN... because he had taken others UNCLEANNESS... corruption of the flesh... INTO his own flesh.. and under the LAW Covenant, if THEY touched him... they, TOO, became "unclean").

    True, the nail holes were present... to show it was the SAME body... that HAD been healed and HAD been resurrected. But nothing else: no leprosy, no deafness or blindness, no flow of blood, none of the sicknesses that had taken the people he had resurrected, no lameness. ALL of this... he took into the body... and took to the grave. When he came BACK... NONE of it was there. Because it was impaled WITH him. The holes were there, as you say, so that Thomas could "see" that it was the SAME body... RE-created (it was initially created when it came from Mary, a woman of "sinFUL" flesh, the one from whom he inherited his flesh). If it was an entirely NEW body... it would have been CREATED. It was his OLD body... that was RE-created. Made... NEW again.

    well, I think ya do...that's why I said something.

    Yes. I undertand. And I do not WANT to offend. Goodness, the TRUTH is that I don't even always want to "go"!! I mean, c'mon, if you were me... would YOU? But I must. LOVE... for God, Christ... and my "brother/neighbor" says I must. But, given your perception, I asked our Lord what it is I could do.... SHOULD do. And the word of my Lord to me is that I am to ask YOU... to be please patient with ME, your servant... and to not "hurry" yourself to be offended, as no offense is INTENDED. I am also to ask that, since love "covers a multitude of transgressions," perhaps you can fnd it in YOUR heart to allow your love "cover" my "transgression." As you have done before... and as you have done here.

    He has also directed me to tell you that you can know that such request WAS from him because if you knew ME... you would know that I would have just as soon said, "Oh, well, you would want to get..." well, you know what I mean. LOLOLOL! I mean, this is TOUGH... and Israel almost ALWAYS "opposes"... and so I have to PRAY for strength to keep going. And I do, because he consistently reminds me that the sheep don't belong to ME... that I am just a servant of HIM, their Shepherd... which also makes me a servant of the sheep themselves. And while it is true that the SHEEP might want me to say something different... or in a different manner... or with a different tone... it is him that I have to listen to.

    Otherwise, he cautions that I might find myself in the same situation as of long ago, when Israel began to want something OTHER than the manna from heaven to eat, and so complained and murmured, to their own detriment. And so, I must now ask you to "receive" the following in the way that is "right" for you:

    "Now the mixed multitude who were among them yielded to intense craving; so the children of Israel also wept again and said: 'Who will give us meat to eat? We remember the fish which we ate freely in Egypt, the cucumbers, the melons, the leeks, the onions, and the garlic; but now our whole being [is] dried up; [there is] nothing at all except this manna [before] our eyes!'... Then Moses heard the people weeping throughout their families, everyone at the door of his tent; and the anger of [JHVH] was greatly aroused; Moses also was displeased. So Moses said to [JHVH], 'Why have You afflicted Your servant? And why have I not found favor in Your sight, that You have laid the burden of all these people on me? Did I conceive all these people? Did I beget them, that You should say to me, 'Carry them in your bosom, as a guardian carries a nursing child,' to the land which You swore to their fathers? Where am I to get meat to give to all these people? For they weep all over me, saying, 'Give us meat, that we may eat.' I am not able to bear all these people alone, because the burden [is] too heavy for me. If You treat me like this, please kill me here and now--if I have found favor in Your sight--and do not let me see my wretchedness!" Numbers 16:4-15

    In light of these verses, I can say I often know exactly how others felt when trying to do what the Spirit directs them... as it relates to Israel. You expect it from the world... but not from Israel... BECAUSE THEY HAVE THESCRIPTURES... and so these things should NOT be "foreign" to them. Yet, it is. But, praise JAH, even our Lord grew impatient at their lack of faith at times. And a slave is NOT greater than her master. Matthew 17:16-17; Mark 9:14-19

    you're talking to number 666...thank God!..in the flesh...

    I do not understand. Can you please clarify? Thank you!

    In the meantime, our Lord sends you his peace... and I bid you peace... and love ... as well.

    YOUR servant... and fellow slave of Christ,

    Shelby

  • javig
    javig

    to: JW or anyone who denies the trinity...

    i was pondering in jw cristology...a question came up to mind trying to understand their jesus and sin...i dont know any jw around my town to personally ask the question thats why i ask in here......here it is...

    if jesus is not the GOD-MAN...GOD in flesh...then whatever he is... how he could be the saviour and be able to forgive sins with his death and satisfy JAH perfect laws unless he is GOD himself?...I thought that the Old Testament teaches that GOD(JAH) he is the only one able to forgive sins and saviour... then we see in the NT another person who is able to forgive sin and savoiur just like JAH in the OT..could it be GOD? or could be two person having the same atributtes? could be two persons doing the same thing while one is JAH but the other is not? or something else?....what will be a fear and comprehensive theologica explanation..if there is any?..thanks

    designs gave us a prety powerful isightful truth...This is entertaining, kind of like watching a dog chase its own tail...i wonder which one is more stupid, the dog chasing its tail or the man wacthing the dog chasing its tail? ....

    to aguest:

    i haven't forgot about you...but your comment...At this point, I will have to leave you all to whatever it is you believe on this matter...does that mean no more talking between us? you were the only one trying to answer my quesion..is jesus a god?...even thou i dont agree with your answers nevertheless want to know your answers...let me know if you still interested or not..thanks...

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    AGuest said:

    "God indeed forbids the “worship”… in the manner of “rendering SACRED service”… to any other. "

    AGuest, please look up and find out what the Hebrew/Aramaic word used for "Serving" or "worshiping" the Son of Man is, in Daniel 7:13-15.

    If I remember correctly, it is the word that means "Sacred Service" which is exclusively given to Yahweh in the rest of the Hebrew Scriptures. Correct me if I am wrong.

  • AGuest

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