is jesus a god?

by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    Wait, are YOU now “cutting and pasting… the very thing you “laughed” at me for doing?!” (For with the same judgment… LOLOLOLOL!) Okay, nevermind - I can accept that, no worries! But it does look like I’ll have to “see” your Genesis 2:4 and Exodus 3:14… and “raise” you an Exodus 6:3, some related “vowel pointings” (which you might want to pay extra special attention to), and the Hebrew references to the True God’s name:

    Genesis 2:4

    ???? Strong's Number H3068 matches the Hebrew ???? (Yehovah)

    Means:

    1) the proper name of the one true God

    a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

    Exodus 3:14

    ??? Strong's Number H1961 matches the Hebrew ??? (hayah),

    Means: (Take your pick; I’ll share mine in a sec…)

    1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out

    a) (Qal)

    (1) -----

    (a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass

    (b) to come about, come to pass

    (2) to come into being, become

    (a) to arise, appear, come

    (b) to become

    (1) to become

    (2) to become like

    (3) to be instituted, be established

    (3) to be

    (a) to exist, be in existence

    (b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)

    (c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)

    (d) to accompany, be with

    b) (Niphal)

    (1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about

    (2) to be done, be finished, be gone

    Exodus 6:3

    ???? Strong's Number H3068 matches the Hebrew ???? (Yehovah)

    Means:

    1) the proper name of the one true God

    a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

    Vowel Pointings of 0136 –

    ???? Strong's Number H136 matches the Hebrew ???? ('Adonay)

    Means:

    1) my lord, lord

    a) of men

    b) of God

    2) Lord - title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence (emphasis mine)

    Okay, now that that’s all out of the way, my understanding, as I heard it from the Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies… which the MOST Holy One of Israel Himself corroborated when HE spoke His name to me… is that the name of the MOST Holy One of Israel… is “JAH”… with the suffix “VEH”… which means:

    “JAH… who causes to be… or breathes into existence… armies (of angels)”

    The Holy Spirit, which is the Son… then directed me to Psalm 68:4, which reads (in MOST versions):

    “Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.”

    The name “Jah”(which some render as “Yah,” but while this is phonetically correct, it is alphabetically incorrect) -

    ?? Strong's Number H3050 matches the Hebrew ?? (Yahh), which

    Means:

    1) Jah (Jehovah in the shortened form)

    (a) the proper name of the one true God

    (b) used in many compounds

    (1) names beginning with the letters 'Je'

    (2) names ending with 'iah' or 'jah'

    THIS is the correct… and important name. That’s why, phonetically speaking, almost every Prophet, and certainly my Lord has THIS name… in their name:

    JAHeshua MischaJAH (JAH saves; Chosen of JAH)

    EliJAH (My God is JAH)

    JAH-el (Joel) (JAH is God)

    AbiJAH (My Father is JAH)

    JeremiJAH (JAH Loosens or Exalts)

    NehemiJAH (JAH Comforts; Comfort of JAH)

    JAHshua (JAH Saves)

    IsaiaJAH (Salvation of JAH)

    HoseJAH (Deliverance of JAH)

    ObadiJAH (Servant of JAH)

    Micah (shortened for “Micaiah” – Who is like JAH)

    ZephaniJAH (JAH has concealed; Treasured of JAH)

    ZechariJAH (JAH has remembered)

    My LORD, the Holy One of Israel, has the name of the Father… JAH… in HIS name, dear one… which is why his words at Matthew 23:39 are so significant:

    “You will by no means SEE me from henceforth UNTIL you say ‘Blessed is HE… that comes in the JAH’S name.”

    Which is exactly why you… and many others… can’t “see” – you can’t bless someone in someone else’s name… IF YOU DON’T KNOW THE NAME.

    So, now, play your hand, dear Lampstand, please. ‘Cause I’m “all in.”

    I do bid you peace, however...

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA, who apologizes for the formatting errors... and disappearance of the Hebrew symbols...

    Vowel Pointings of 0136 –

    ???? Strong's Number H136 matches the Hebrew ???? ('Adonay)

    Means:

    1) my lord, lord

    a) of men

    b) of God

    2) Lord - title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence (emphasis mine)

    Okay, now that that’s all out of the way, my understanding, as I heard it from the Holy One of Israel, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies… which the MOST Holy One of Israel Himself corroborated when HE spoke His name to me… is that the name of the MOST Holy One of Israel… is “JAH”… with the suffix “VEH”… which means:

    “JAH… who causes to be… or breathes into existence… armies (of angels)”

    The Holy Spirit, which is the Son… then directed me to Psalm 68:4, which reads (in MOST versions):

    “Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.”

    The name “Jah”(which some render as “Yah,” but while this is phonetically correct, it is alphabetically incorrect) -

    ?? Strong's Number H3050 matches the Hebrew ?? (Yahh), which

    Means:

    1) Jah (Jehovah in the shortened form)

    (a) the proper name of the one true God

    (b) used in many compounds

    (1) names beginning with the letters 'Je'

    (2) names ending with 'iah' or 'jah'

    THIS is the correct… and important name. That’s why, phonetically speaking, almost every Prophet, and certainly my Lord has THIS name… in their name:

    JAHeshua MischaJAH (JAH saves; Chosen of JAH)

    EliJAH (My God is JAH)

    JAH-el (Joel) (JAH is God)

    AbiJAH (My Father is JAH)

    JeremiJAH (JAH Loosens or Exalts)

    NehemiJAH (JAH Comforts; Comfort of JAH)

    JAHshua (JAH Saves)

    IsaiaJAH (Salvation of JAH)

    HoseJAH (Deliverance of JAH)

    ObadiJAH (Servant of JAH)

    Micah (shortened for “Micaiah” – Who is like JAH)

    ZephaniJAH (JAH has concealed; Treasured of JAH)

    ZechariJAH (JAH has remembered)

    My LORD, the Holy One of Israel, has the name of the Father… JAH… in HIS name, dear one… which is why his words at Matthew 23:39 are so significant:

    “You will by no means SEE me from henceforth UNTIL you say ‘Blessed is HE… that comes in the JAH’S name.”

    Which is exactly why you… and many others… can’t “see” – you can’t bless someone in someone else’s name… IF YOU DON’T KNOW THE NAME.

    So, now, play your hand, dear Lampstand, please. ‘Cause I’m “all in.”

    I do bid you peace, however...

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough
    Learn something before quickly responding...
    "I Am"
    Exodus 3:14

    Hebrew word: Hebrew text
    Pronounced: aeie (first 4 letters only, the whole thing says "I am who I am")
    Means: I-shall-become (Mondern English its "I Am")

    Views differ. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-7.html#36

    God said His name is I AM THAT (or WHO) I AM (’Ehyeh -’Asher -’Ehyeh), or the shortened I AM. I AM THAT I AM is one of the most debated phrases with respect to the Hebrew verb hayah. A distinct minority of interpretations render it I-Will-Be-That-I-Will-Be, (R. Alter, The Five Books of Moses: a Translation with Commentary [New York, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2004], 321) (Books of Moses).

    The Jehovah's Witnesses prefer, “I shall prove to be who I shall prove to be,” arguing that hayah “means ‘become,’ or ‘prove to be.’” They claim that the reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others (Insight, 12). But this is incorrect, at most a half truth.

    Even scholars who prefer this minority view concede that “the common rendering of “I-AM-THAT-I-AM” cannot be excluded,” (Alter, Books of Moses, 321). Furthermore, “Since the tense system of Biblical Hebrew by no means corresponds to that of modern English, it is also perfectly possible to construe this as “I AM HE WHO ENDURES” (ibid.).

    I AM THAT I AM without a doubt represents the majority view, the traditional common rendering, and hayah in this context means “to exist,” “to be.” “The verb makes a strong statement about the being or presence of a person or thing” (Strong and Vine’s, 68 (1a)). “Ex 3:14 is more than a simple statement of identity: “I am that I am”… is a declaration of divine control of all things (cf Hos 1:9) (ibid., 68). Remember, Jesus said “All power and authority has been given to me” (Matthew 28:18).

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you both have peace!

    Dearest JDough - You misunderstand Exodus 3:14… understandably - The Most Holy One of Israel did not saythat His name is “I AM THAT (or WHO) I AM.” When Moses asked what he was to tell the Israelites if they asked what God’s name was, GOD said that He was who He was (“I am who I am”)… and that IF they asked Moses was to tell them that the One WHO IS WHO HE IS had sent him (Moses). He gave no NAME… but just made a reply that He was who He was… and that He would PROVE to them who He was: the MOST High God.

    Regardless of that account, however, the MOST Holy One of Israel DID in fact identify Himself… BY NAME… at Exodus 6:3:

    “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by [the name of] God Almighty, but by my name [JHVH] was I not known to them.” (see above under “Exodus 6:3)

    But we don’t need to stop there, for His TRUE name… is shown at Psalm 68:4 in almost EVERY Bible version published:

    “Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.”

    It is the REASON we SAY, “Hallel u JAH”. It means “Praise you, JAH!” We don’t say, “Hallel u GOD,” or “Hallel u LORD,” or “Hallel u Jehovah…”

    As to Revelation 1:8, dear Lampstand, it is the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies… aka “God”… who is speaking there. He interjects and identifies Himself as John is “speaking.” Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, does not speak until verse 17b. His description of himself as the “First and Last” there… is NOT the same as the Alpha and Omega. The Greek words are not the same and do not mean the same thing.

    Once he concludes his message to the 7 congregations (Revelation 3:22), HE DOES NOT SPEAK AGAIN until Revelation 19:6… when he JOINS the great crowd and the angels in PRAISING JAH. After that, he does not speak again, until Revelation 22:16.

    The person speaking at Revelation 1:11, 4:1, and 22:18-20… is the Arkangel, Michael, who gave John the Revelation.

    The Person speaking at Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:12 is the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.

    How do we know? Well, at least with reference to Christ and Michael… THEY HAVE DIFFERENT VOICES. Michael’s voice “is as of a TRUMPET” (see 1:11 and 4:1). Christ’s voice… “is as of MANY WATERS” (see 1:15 and 19:6)

    Obviously, there are some who don’t understand the LITERAL meaning of “my sheep KNOW MY VOICE,” any more than they understand the TECHNICAL meaning. John 10:27

    As to the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, He identifies Himself at Revelation 1:8, Revelation 21:6, and Revelation 22:12. We KNOW it is not Christ in the first instance, because Christ doesn’t start speaking until verse 17b, when he greets John. We KNOW it is not Christ in the second instancebecause it is the One seated on the throne and Christ is BROUGHT UP TO that One. Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14 And we KNOW it is not Christ in the thirdinstancebecause this is the FULFILLMENT of the “illustration” given BY Christ of the HOUSEHOLDER “returning from abroad.” That Householder had a SON who He sent… which SON was killed by those he was sent to. The MASTER was not killed; his SON was. Matthew 21:33-41.

    The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, is the “Alpha”… in that HE is the beginning… and the end. There was nothing BEFORE Him… and there will be nothing AFTER Him.

    His SON… the HOLY One of Israel is the “First”… in that he is the firstBORN of all creation as well as the firstBORN (“re-created”) from the dead… never to die again. Every other person resurrected, even by him… died AGAIN. He was resurrected ONCE… to eternal life. The FIRST one this occurred for.

    He is the “Last”… in that he is the LAST KING. HIS kingdom will put an END… to ALL OTHER KINGDOMS and will NEVER be brought to ruin. Earthling man… and more particularly Israel… will NEVER have another king… ever… for HIS rulership will NOT pass away, but will remain… forever.

    By the way, I would like both your comments on the following, if you care to give them:

    1. Exodus 6:3 and Psalm 68:4 (as to God’s name);

    2. Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14 (particularly as to where the “third person” of the God/Christ/Holy Spirit is here); and

    3. Matthew 21:33-41 (as to (1) whom the Householder and son might be, and (2) where that “third person” is again)

    In the meantime, I bid you both peace.

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • javig
    javig

    To PSacramento .....

    Don't be confused by your own doubts...Is good to have doubts but dont let those doubts lead you away from God. Is good to have doubts as long as you take hold of them and clear them by finding a real answer thru the word of God. A doubt about the OT GOD and the NT GOD is a common one between believers or anyone starting christianity. I had the same doubt but that doubt took me to a research journey and critical analysis about God...Now i understand better the nature of God. As you read the bible from Genesis thru Revelation you will notice the unfolding revelation about God. The amazing thing is that the bible reveal Jesus from beginning to end, the real GOD. Read Luke 24:13-35...Also i have this book over 170 questions that covers a lot of subjects just like the one you have. Why the OT God send to masacre people?(im paraphrasing you)....here is the link for that book...

    http://www.equipresources.org/site/apps/ka/ec/product.aspc=muI1LaMNJrE&b=2537845&en=rmKVK6PYIhLQKeO4IiKQJhM0InK3J9MRJmL9IjO3IwKfG&ProductID=612253

    once there search the website. you will find it interesting. My recomendation is; buy that book you will be grateful..if not sure about the book i can send you a pdf file to ur email... why God send to masacre people?....the question in the book is stated: How can Christians legimitaze a God who orders the geonocide of entire nations?...........

    Dont be confuse by God rightenous and holy nature in the OT and the NT. Nothing had changed. A lot of people believe that the Old Covenant was strict or severe but the truth is that the new covenant surpass the old one and is more strict, severe and better. The book of Hebrews teaches that very plainly. read it you will see. Another book that will help you is 1 John...Please remember there is only one God revealed in two testaments. you wont be able to understand the new without the old and vice-versa. I learned The OT is the application of the NT . The truths from the NT is clearly seeing in the OT...hope that helps...Plase keep in mind that there is only one GOD...and that God is Jesus Christ

    1 John 5:20 (King James Version)

    20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    1 John 5:7 (King James Version)

    7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

  • javig
    javig

    To Aguest

    Please read the context or better yet understand what is biblical hermeneutics...As far im concern the Holy Spirit is presentedin the bible as a person...i will give you bible text later not now...in the mean time let me laugh when you say that Revelation 1:11 is the arkangel michael talking. as far im concerned there is many angels mention in revelation and none of them John describe them with a name except chapter 12 been michael without speaking...you said that angel is michael cause his voice..well..what about john did he said the one speaking in verse 11 is michael?...John didn't bother to mention the name of the angel in verse 1 but you bother...interesting...I admire your passion in defending your own lies. we really need people like that in the body of Christ...but except of spreading lies spreading truth...Your understanding about jesus is, a god...that there is enough to call you an antichrist accorsint to the inspired word of the Spirit in

    1 John 4:2-3 (King James Version)

    2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    ....you mite said that i dont undrsetand the greek meaning behind the text or i have the wrong translation...but i do understand the context very clearly...you see for a person not to believe in the trinity has to denied the incarnation and john is saying if you denied that Jesus came in flesh you have the spirit of the antichrist...u mite accept the incarnation doctrine but an incarnation of ur jesus,a god, but not the GOD of the bible. You have a different view about jesus than me, the bible and the HOLY SPIRIT...and the sad part about it you claim that the Spirit gave you wisdom, understanding and light about this truth (jesus, a god)...thats interesting...a new light when we all been believing the same thing over a period of almost 2000 years and now you said that the spirit told you to refuse that Jesus is God becuase he is a god...that sounds like a cult to me...

    i will get to you later about this issue even more...im gonna do my own homework in seeing jesus as a god...i will get back to you on this...in the mean time try to see jesus as your GOD and not merely a god...you mite learn something...may JAH open your eyes

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    javig,

    I aprreciate your concern about my doubts, but my doubts lead me to question what is WRITTEN about God and Jesus, not God or Jesus.

    I understand the issues of the OT and why many writers thought the way they did, God sent his Son to make himself better understood since obvioulsy that was not the case up until Jesus came, the Hebrews had the wrong idea about what was needed, what was wanted by God, what God's will was, Jesus revealed this to us and in doing so, revealed the True God to US, Our Father.

    The GOJ and 1John as my favorits "books" of the NT, not because of the heavy "christology" but because of proponderance of Love.

    God I love and where there is love, there is God and where there is no love, there is no God.

  • AGuest
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    As far im concern the Holy Spirit is presentedin the bible as a person...

    I do not disagree with that. He IS a person…

    i will give you bible text later not now...

    Suit yourself…

    in the mean time let me laugh when you say that Revelation 1:11 is the arkangel michael talking. as far im concerned there is many angels mention in revelation and none of them John describe them with a name except chapter 12 been michael without speaking... you said that angel is michael cause his voice..well..what about john did he said the one speaking in verse 11 is michael?... John didn't bother to mention the name of the angel in verse 1

    While laughing may make you APPEAR to be more knowledgeable of these things, dear one, at least in your OWN mind… it doesn’t actually MAKE you more knowledgeable. I know it to be Michael NOT because of what some book says, but because that is who my Lord identified it to be to me. And I put FAITH in the thing I heard… from HIM. BUT… okay, let’s go with your skepticism: let’s say it isn’t Michael. No problem. That doesn’t MAKE it my Lord… whose voice is NOT as of a trumpet, but as of many waters… and who doesn’t SPEAK… until verse 17b… which I notice you DIDN’T address. At all.

    but you bother...interesting...I admire your passion in defending your own lies. we really need people like that in the body of Christ...but except of spreading lies spreading truth...Your understanding about jesus is, a god...

    He is a god… as are all immortals. Unfortunately, your lack of WORD ENTYMOLOGY and COMPREHENSION has taken you to a point of being, well, almost illiterate, if not ignorant. AND… to bear false witness… for what I said to you is TRUE. I forgive you, though… and exhort you to go back and read what I wrote… as well as look up the word “god.” In ANY culture.

    Christ IS immortal… and “gods” are “immortals”. Thus, Christ is a god. And I think that perhaps you are the ONLY person here who doesn’t get that very basic logic. I understand that YOU aren’t considering the word in that context, but you are in error… and SHOULD consider ALL contexts. YOU consider ALL gods to be FALSE gods. True, they are not the MOST High God… which some, including me, call the “TRUE” God. They are not Gods. ANY other God… is a false God. But they are gods… because ALL spirit beings are immortal… and all immortals are… gods. And some of us will one day be “like” them… which is why WE are called “gods” by the MOST Holy One Himself. Because WE… will be “like” the angels… SPIRIT beings… gods. Psalm 82:6; Luke 20:36

    Thus, Paul wrote:

    “But to us oneGod, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one LordJesus Christ, by whom all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6

    But I understand that YOU don’t understand these things… because the HOLY SPIRIT has not REVEALED them… to YOU.

    that there is enough to call you an antichrist accorsint to the inspired word of the Spirit in

    1 John 4:2-3 (King James Version)

    2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

    3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    Now, where in the WORLD did you get that I don’t confess Christ has having come in the flesh??? How are you taking this “truth”… and trying to use it to support YOUR lack of understanding? Do you really think the folks here are THAT… well, stupid? I assure you, they are not… and the vast “holes” in your argument… and thinking… are manifest.

    ....you mite said that i dont undrsetand the greek meaning behind the text or i have the wrong translation...but i do understand the context very clearly...you see for a person not to believe in the trinity has to denied the incarnation and john is saying if you denied that Jesus came in flesh you have the spirit of the antichrist...

    John said NO such thing. There is absolutely NOTHING in his statement having to do with a trinity. Nothing at ALL. I OPENLY confess that my Lord came in the flesh. And that confession IS OF GOD… for flesh and blood did not reveal it to me, but the HOLY SPIRIT himself revealed it to me. That is how I KNOW it… in order to SAY it.

    u mite accept the incarnation doctrine but an incarnation of ur jesus,a god, but not the GOD of the bible. You have a different view about jesus than me, the bible and the HOLY SPIRIT...and the sad part about it you claim that the Spirit gave you wisdom, understanding and light about this truth (jesus, a god)...

    Indeed. And I openly confess to you HERE… that this is true: the HOLY SPIRIT… which IS the Christ… had revealed ALL of these things to me. Again, I ask YOU: what is YOUR Source?

    thats interesting...a new light when we all been believing the same thing over a period of almost 2000 years and now you said that the spirit told you to refuse that Jesus is God becuase he is a god...that sounds like a cult to me...

    Ummmm… who is the “we” you’re referring to here? Not all believe as you do. But be that as it may… it does not matter to me what earthling man “believes.” What matters to ME… is what the HOLY SPIRIT says is TRUE.

    i will get to you later about this issue even more...im gonna do my own homework in seeing jesus as a god...

    Wha… wait! You need to do HOMEWORK??? And why is THAT? Can you not just ask of the HOLY SPIRIT… and let HIM tell you? If not, WHY not?? You are a member of the Body of Christ, yes? That is your claim. Why, then, does the ANOINTING in YOU… not teach YOU???

    i will get back to you on this...in the mean time try to see jesus as your GOD and not merely a god...you mite learn something...may JAH open your eyes

    Yes, please… DO get back to me. Because there are those watching… including God and Christ… and we OWE them the TRUTH. Malachi 3:16 In the meantime, may YOU know that the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, has indeed opened my eyes. I “bought eyesalve” from the One HE authorized to SELL it – His SON - the One AUTHORIZIED to give sight to the blind… and who does so for FREE. HE opened MY eyes… and as a result I can SEE… many things… including the TRUTH that he is the glorified HOLY SPIRIT. Matthew 9:27-31; Revelation 3:18; Luke 4:18; 2 Corinthians 3:17

    That YOU cannot see this TRUTH… this GOOD news that I share… only shows ME… that you are yet BLIND… and naked… and miserable… and pitiable… as I once was. Thus, the good news about THE GLORY OF CHRIST… the IMAGE of God… who is now the LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT… cannot shine through. And I am not surprised. 2 Corinthians 4:3-6

    May YOU see THIS truth… and perhaps condescend to “buy” a little “eyesalve”… the holy spirit of God, which is poured out from the innermost parts of the HOLY One of Israel, the Holy Spirit and His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Revelation 3:17, 1

    BTW - I am still awaiting your comments to the following (see my previous pose for specifics):

    1. Exodus 6:3 and Psalm 68:4

    2. Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14

    3. Matthew 21:33-41

    My peace remains, and I remain…

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ

    SA

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Aguest,

    RE: Revelation.

    It is true that who is speaking to John is an angel in 1:11, thatis clear up in chapter 4, but the revelation is NOT given to John by said angel ( who remais unidentified and can be argued to be Gabriel, not Michael), it is given, as per John's onw words in the very beginning of Revelation:

    The revelation of Jesus Christ, given to Jesus by God and passed on from jesus to an angel sent by God to John.

    The Angel shows John the Revelation the Jesus is showing that was given to Jesus by God.

    It can be argued that the angel in question is gabriel because of the similarities of what happens to Daniel when Gabriel gives him his revelation.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    Revelation 1: 8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

    One like a Son of Man

    9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."

    12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," [b] dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

    17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

    19 "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20 The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels [c] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

    Footnotes:

    1. Revelation 1:5 Or the sevenfold Spirit
    2. Revelation 1:13 Daniel 7:13
    3. Revelation 1:20 Or messengers

    Interesting discussion. From the above, it seems that the voice like a trumpet and like the sound of rushing waters belongs to the same Person.

    Very interesting.

    Sylvia

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