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is jesus a god?
by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible
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AGuest
May you have peace!
I did ask to be done with this subject, and was granted such. However, I am YOUR servant and it is not “about” me… and my will… but you, the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with them… and God’s will… as that will is made known to us through Christ. To that end, I will continue to the extent we are not going around in circles because there really is not point in that. At some point, we will simply have to agree to disagree. Okay, then:
if jesus is not the GOD-MAN...GOD in flesh...then whatever he is... how he could be the saviour and be able to forgive sins with his death and satisfy JAH perfect laws unless he is GOD himself?
I took your matter to our Lord, dear Javig, and he has responded. The word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” as to your first question, is:
1. Initially, he was able to forgive sins because the authority to do so was GRANTED to him. It was a “demonstration” of God’s love… and mercy. Mark 2:6-12 But it was temporary and only forgave the sins IN the flesh. The word of my Lord to you is that dear “Javig,” is “unless blood is poured out, no forgiveness of sins takes place.” This is the reason for the sacrificial system to begin with. Hebrews 9:22 So, because HE poured HIS blood out… forgiveness of sins can now take place… for eternity… for whomever he wishes his sacrifice to apply to (those “in union” with him). Romans 8:3 Because he PURCHASED their spirits (eternal lives) FOR God… with HIS own blood. He gave HIS blood… to atone for their sins… to “wash” such sins away. So, God granted it to him to forgive sins FOREVER… for those he chose/chooses. John 17:1,2;Acts 5:31 The word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” is that the REASON the MOST Holy One of Israel granted it to him eternally… is because he gave his life… and blood… for such ones… as an ACT OF LOVE… FOR GOD (who loved the world SO much!). Luke 22:42; John 18:11 The Most Holy One of Israel GRANTED it to him… to forgive sins. Matthew 28:18
As a result, the four living creatures and 25 elders fell down before him, the Lamb, and began singing a NEW song:
"YOU are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.” Revelation 5:9
As to the second part of your question, the word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” is:
1. He learned ALL things… as to what he did and said… from the Father – John 8:28 - so that, as a result…
2. He did NOTHING of his own initiative… including COMING to give his life… but only (a) what he learned from the Father; (b) what he heard from the Father; (c) what he observed the Father doing; (4) and what the Father asked/sent him to do – John 5:19; 5:30; 7:28, 29; 8:42 – which he DID…
3. Because he LOVED the Father, to the point of denying his own desires and will… even to the point of denying his own life. He NEVER deviated from items 1 and 2, and because of this…
4. The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, sent HIS spirit to “dwell” IN my Lord… and so by MEANS of that Spirit… he was able to CONQUER.
The word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” is that the bottom line was LOVE… of the Father… was what allowed him to “satisfy” JAH’s perfect laws. And that just as it was for him… it is the SAME for us. He said that IF we love HIM… we will keep HIS commandments and IF we keep his commandments… he AND the Father will come and “make their abode” IN us… that is, dwell IN us… so that by means of that spirit… we, too, can and will conquer. John 14:23 The word of my Lord to you is that HIS commandments are the FATHER’S commandments and so if we keep HIS commandments… and thus show that we love HIM… we are, in essence, keeping the FATHER’s commandments… and showing that we love the Father. John 14:21, 24
And how do we keep their commandments? The word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” is “one word: love.” The word of my Lord to you is that love… IS the Law’s fulfillment… and COVERS… ALL transgressions. He said that because of LOVE…we show MERCY. And mercy… “triumphs”… “exults”… over judgment. Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:10; Proverbs 10:12; 1 Peter 4:8; Matthew 12:7, 8
...I thought that the Old Testament teaches that GOD(JAH) he is the only one able to forgive sins and saviour... then we see in the NT another person who is able to forgive sin and savoiur just like JAH in the OT..could it be GOD?
It is TRUE… ONLY the MOST Holy One of Israel can forgive sins. ALL others… must have AUTHORITY FROM HIM… to do so! Our, Lord, the HOLY One of Israel, Christ, can do NOTHING as to forgiving sins… had it not been GRANTED to him. Think again of Joseph and Pharaoh: EVERYONE in the land had to bow down to and go to Joseph. But it was ONLY because Joseph received AUTHORITY… from Pharaoh. Thus, JOSEPH… could do nothing. The DECREE… HAD to come from and be granted… by PHARAOH. So, like Christ… who came in the name of JAH… Joseph had to do what he did in the name of Pharaoh. How would you KNOW Joseph had such “authority”? By means of PHARAOH’S signet ring. By MEANS of that… Joseph could do anything he wanted… to anyone he wanted… except as to Pharaoh himself.
Same thing: by means of God’s SPIRIT… our Lord can do ANYTHING he wishes… to ANYONE he wishes to do it… except as to the MOST Holy One of Israel, his God and Father, JAH… of Armies. John 3:35; Genesis 41:40; Daniel 7:13, 14 (notice the word “given” in verse 14)
or could be two person having the same atributtes?
Well, yes! Our Lord said “ALL authority… has been given me.” But you are speaking of TWO persons… not three.
could be two persons doing the same thing while one is JAH but the other is not?
Absolutely! Let me ask you: when Joseph was feeding those who came to him for grain… WHOSE grain was it? Joseph’s? Or Pharaoh? True, Joseph DISPENSES the grain. But WHO was really feeding those who came to Joseph? What if Pharaoh decided to “revoke” the authority he gave Joseph? What authority, then, would Joseph have had? None.
or something else?....
There is nothing else… but the truth…
what will be a fear and comprehensive theological explanation...if there is any?..thanks
First, the word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” is that he does not “deal” in “theological” explanations, but in the truth. And only the truth. “Theological” has to do with gods… NOT the Most Holy One of Israel. If you want an explanation from HIM… you MUST go through His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. There is NO other way, truly. That One will ALWAYS give you a “fair” explanation, because he will ALWAYS give you the TRUTH. Proverbs 8:4-9
designs gave us a prety powerful isightful truth...This is entertaining, kind of like watching a dog chase its own tail...i wonder which one is more stupid, the dog chasing its tail or the man wacthing the dog chasing its tail? ... .
Something to think about, yes.
does that mean no more talking between us?
Not at all. It does mean that at some point I will have to let go… and let God. It does not matter HOW much I speak the truth of this matter to you: you do not belong to me. As my Lord is recorded to say, not everyone can received the Spirit of the Truth… HE is the one who chooses us and not we him… NO ONE comes to the Father except through him… an NO ONE come to HIM… unless the Father draws such one. I have long known that the things I receive from him are not for everyone. At some point, it becomes more of a “fight” than a sharing… and I am not permitted to do that with what I receive, sorry. John 14:17; John 15:16; John 14:6; John 6:44; Matthew 13:9-23
you were the only one trying to answer my quesion..is jesus a god?...even thou i dont agree with your answers nevertheless want to know your answers...
I tell you the truth, dear one: they are not my answers. To even think that they are is a blasphemy again the One who shares the truth of these matters with me: my Lord, the Holy Spirit and Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, the His God and mine… JAH of Armies.
let me know if you still interested or not…
I am still “interested,” dear Javig… to the extent you do not cut and paste “pages” from someone else’s doctrine. If you believe someone else as your “leader,” then I say to you, “go in peace.” If, however, you want to discuss YOUR beliefs… as such relates to the TRUTH… then I will continue with you. Please note, I will speak the truth to you… as I receive it from the Truth (John 14:6). I will not, however, “tickle” your ears by telling you what you want to hear. That would be deceit… regardless of whether you WANT it or not… and I cannot use my gift to try and “fool” you… because it could be considered as also trying to fool my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, whose sheep you might be.
I bid you the greatest of peace… and look forward to continuing our “discussion.”
YOUR servant and servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a slave of Christ,
SA
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AGuest
May you have peace!
please look up and find out what the Hebrew/Aramaic word used for "Serving" or "worshiping" the Son of Man is, in Daniel 7:13-15. If I remember correctly, it is the word that means "Sacred Service" which is exclusively given to Yahweh in the rest of the Hebrew Scriptures. Correct me if I am wrong.
Praise JAH for faith! You see, dear UnDf’d… I don’t KNOW this stuff! Truly, I DON’T! So, I read your response and my FLESH and heart go, “Oh, Lordy, what have I posted? My Lord, what did you say to me? What did I HEAR? Surely, I posted exactly what you told me?” And, as always, my Lord says to me, “Be at peace… and be calm, child. You heard correctly. Look!”
So, I go to Daniel 7:13-15… and my Lord directs me to verse 14, which states:
“He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
The word “worshiped” (or “served” in some Bible versions) matches Strong's Number H6399 which matches the Hebrew pelach. This word means:
1) to serve, worship, revere, minister for, pay reverence to
a) (P'al)
(1)to pay reverence to
(2) to serve
And given that, it is QUITE understandable that you would ask the question you have. However, my Lord then next directed me to Exodus 20:5, which states:
“You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me…”
The word “worshiped” (or “served” in some Bible versions) matches Strong's Number H5647 which matches the Hebrew `abad. This word means:
1) to work, serve
a) (Qal)
(1) to labour, work, do work
(2) to work for another, serve another by labour
(3) to serve as subjects
(4) to serve (God)
(5) to serve (with Levitical service)
b) (Niphal)
(1) to be worked, be tilled (of land)
(2) to make oneself a servant
c) (Pual) to be worked
d) (Hiphil)
(1) to compel to labour or work, cause to labour, cause to serve
(2) to cause to serve as subjects
e) (Hophal) to be led or enticed to serve
Now, the first words does indicate it is “Aramaic,” so I asked. And the word of my Lord is that the two do NOT mean exactly the same thing… that while the first does make reference to service, it is in that Christ is our Lord… and we are to revere him, serve him, obey him, etc. However, it is ONLY the MOST Holy One of Israel that we are to render PRIESTLY service to… i.e., “SACRED”… or “LEVITICAL” service.
I hope this helps, dear UnDf’d. I have shared it with you just as it was shared with me by my Lord and master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy One of Israel and Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SA
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javig
Thanks Aguest for answering.
I gave up hope. This is the only medium (internet) that I have to understand why people think as Jesus as a god…I can’t demand that from my LORD because I know he is not a god neither he creates or produce gods. What I want know is the view of people in how they see jesus as a god instead of the GOD-MAN and how everything else fits in the equation. So far what I have though is being confirmed by you and others thoughts are totally new. I do read the word of GOD and speak to Him and I know if what he verbally tells me doesn’t fit HIS written word something is wrong…His not speaking to me is somebody else. My LORD can’t contradict Himself with is verbal and written words otherwise He will be a divine liar. As you see I do believe in the Infallible word of God, the Bible. Of course there is secondary issues that we can disagree and debate with out hatred but share. But the main and plain things is perfectly written for us…example…GOD s nature…Haven’t said this. I have been reading discreetly and discerning every word you posted in here since 10-26-09 and on. Pretty soon I will come up with a conclusion and your will be the only one to correct me of my conclusion because is based in everything you have said. Since you proclaim most of your words comes from the LORD himself we will see who is lying..you or your LORD or both…also I am using the bible as my proof guide to make my conclusion since is the only proof that I have from the LORD himself concerning Himself….i am doing all this to find the answer to my question..is jesus a god? So far you have said yes and gave your explanation and reasons…I am also trying to answer the question but my brain could go so far as well as the written word…in other words I get stuck. Soon I will let you know what are those things even thou you have answered some…in the mean time I am asking you to help me with my conclusion even more…thanks….
You said: First, the word of my Lord to you, dear “Javig,” is that he does not “deal” in “theological” explanations, but in the truth. And only the truth…I do agree GOD is a GOD of thruh. Theological explanations is something that we dedcuct from his truth and is not wrong been theological… “Theological” has to do with gods….. I agree and disagree read here http://www.answers.com/topic/theology
and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theology
and here http://www.google.com/searchhl=en&defl=en&q=define:theology&ei=Ag_5Sr3_FdDanAfDpZ2DDQ&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAcQkAE …sometimes this “theological” word can be apply to gods (that is if you think they exist which you do and said jesus is a god)…but also can be apply to GOD in the sense of studying or understanding GOD or as the bible defines best…Col 1:9-10 “For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God”
NOT the Most Holy One of Israel. If you want an explanation from HIM… you MUST go through His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. There is NO other way, truly. That One will ALWAYS give you a “fair” explanation, because he will ALWAYS give you the TRUTH…exactly Jesus is the WORD of GOD in flesh that’s why HIS written word can’t contradict Himself and that’s why I go in prayer to him as well his written word.
Proverbs 8:4-9…I love that verse but I don’t think in any sense its talking about Jesus is talking about wisdom…I wanted to ask you since you mentioned that verse…you said Jesus was produced according to Prov 8…tell me how you came to that conclusion?..
You said: If you believe someone else as your “leader,” then I say to you, “go in peace.” …I don’t believe no one Is MY leader, JESUS is the ONLY ONE…but I do think that there are leaders that Jesus established them for the edification of HIS BODY…like apostles..prohets…Ephe 4:7-16 and 1 Cor 12…you see Jesus is THE LEADER and because HE has establish leaders here in earth for the benefit of the church my duty is to see those leaders as leaders but never as the leader, that title belong to JESUS…if I copy and paste anyones doctrine I will make sure their doctrine goes hand in hand with scripture....talk to you later
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javig
The Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus: Different from the Jesus of the Bible?
The Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus- Introduction
Jehovah’s Witnesses freely profess to believe in Jesus Christ. But what exactly is their view of Jesus?
The Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus- Very Different from the Scriptures
Upon close examination, we find that Jehovah’s Witnesses preach a Jesus who’s vastly different from the Jesus of the Bible. Jehovah’s Witnesses regard Jesus as the first and only being directly created by Jehovah God (cf. John 1:1-3 ). They believe that Jehovah God has never had any personal contact with creation, but was indirectly responsible for the creation of all beings by empowering Jesus to bring the physical universe into existence. It’s interesting to note that the Gnostics — who were denounced by the early church — held strikingly similar views.
The Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus- Denial of Deity
Jehovah’s Witnesses also deny that Jesus is God Almighty (cf. Phil. 2:6-7 ). They claim that Jesus is not all-powerful, that He is not all-knowing, and that He is not even all-present. Curiously enough, however, they deny these same attributes about their own Jehovah God!
The Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus- Jesus is not to be worshipped?
In addition to all of this, Jehovah’s Witnesses insist that Jesus should not be worshipped (cf. Matt. 2:11 ; 28:9 ; Heb. 1:6 ), and that prayers should not be addressed to Him (cf. Acts 7:59-60 ; 9:13-14 ). And while they concede that Jesus should be honored, they refuse to honor Him to the same degree God the Father is honored. This, of course, flies directly in the face of what Jesus proclaimed in John 5:23 , when He said that it is God’s will for “all to honor the Son just as they honor the Father.” On top of this, Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that when Jesus Christ was made flesh He became only a mere man who might have sinned but, fortunately for us, didn’t (cf. John 5:19 ; 7:18 ; 8:55 ).
The Jehovah's Witnesses' Jesus- Denial of Physical Resurrection
Finally, Jehovah’s Witnesses deny that Jesus rose bodily from the grave (cf. John 2:19-22 ; Luke 24:39 ), teaching instead that He rose in a “spirit body” (whatever that may be). Thus, Jesus’ resurrection can’t be seen as a triumph over physical death when, in fact, this is the very opposite of what Scripture reveals ( 1 Cor. 15:54-55 ). Because of these and other reasons, Jehovah’s Witnesses cannot be regarded as true Christians. Rather, they are what is classically referred to as a cult. They claim to be Christian yet deny essential Christian doctrine. Now, we cannot compromise when it comes to the nature of God, and certainly not when it comes to the Lord Jesus Christ. -
javig
To Aguest:
Lets go back a couples of days regarding a question that i asked you and please clarify your answer...didn't understanded
i asked you "
If you want to prove that you one day will become a god they why JAH created you as a human being in the first place? He could have created you a god in the beginning of your existence."
you answered
"The word of the Holy Spirit… is that you were attempting to be flip… and so do not realize what you have asked, but since you HAVE asked… you must now consider whether you really want to know… or not. Thus, he has directed that I can answer this question; however, I can ONLY answer if (1) you are absolutely serious and truly WISHING to know… and (2) the answer can be set off in a response by itself (it can be in this thread, but not this particular response post). I cannot combine it here, because it is (1) too important, and (2) very wondrous. So… you need to let the MOST Holy One of Israel (aka “God”) know… through Christ… what it is you are “wishing” with regard to this particular matter. If you are sincere, I will be directed to respond. Indeed, I will HAVE to. IF, however, you are NOT sincere… but only wish to engage in “empty” debate and so are unable to put faith in what I am able to share with you as to this matter… you will receive nothing. James 1:5-8 However, to help you so that you might know how to approach (besides going through Christ)… i.e., WHAT to ask for… I am to direct you to Luke 11:13. The word of the Holy Spirit is… the choice in this matter is totally yours."....
i really want to know the asnwer to my question and i am not trying to be flip, if it looks flip is not my intention.....is it too important for me to ask you? or you dont want to anwer?....you see, if you believe that one day you will be a god then the most commom question that i have for you is......Is GOD knew that you one day you will be a god, then why he created you as a human being?...i can't answer my own question becuase i dont believe in that, but since you do, you are the only one in here that can help me...MY LORD can't answer my question becuase according to his written word in genesis 1:26-27 " 26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them....he creates mankind to his image , male and female, not gods to his own image...
you said is very wondrous but if it is why you dont want to share?....waiting for your answer...
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AGuest
May you have peace!
I will answer your most recent post before the day ends here. For now, here is my response to the one before it:
Thanks Aguest for answering.
You are quite welcome as to my part, dear Javig; however, it is not only me that you should thank. I only shared with you what my Lord gave me. Sure, I posted it... but it was not mine: it did not come from me. No worries: I get that you don't "get" that... yet.
I gave up hope. This is the only medium (internet) that I have to understand why people think as Jesus as a god...
And I am probably one of the few people who answered you such (to the extent that I answered).
I can't demand that from my LORD because I know he is not a god neither he creates or produce gods.
Assuming you got that belief from reading the Bible, I would have to say that the Bible also states differently. Let me ask you, dear Javig, and you tell me please: what Greek word is used for "God" in the Bible? Say, at John 1:1? It is "theos," is it not? Okay. Now, what word is used for "god" as, say, 2 Corinthians 4:4, which verse directly refers to Satan? It is, again, "theos," is it not? How about at John 20:28, where Thomas referred to our Lord as "my God." Is it not, again, "theos?" How about at John 10:34-36, which states (from the RSV):
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, you are gods'? If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
May I ask you: what Greek word is used in these verses for "gods, "gods," and "God"? Is it not the SAME word... "theos"... for all four? Regardless of whether the word is capitalized... or pluralized? Now, let me ask you, and you tell me, please... how did the Bible translators... the "scribes"... know which "theos" is capitalized... and which is not?
What I want know is the view of people in how they see jesus as a god instead of the GOD-MAN and how everything else fits in the equation. So far what I have though is being confirmed by you and others thoughts are totally new.
I am sorry that my response... and the responses my Lord gave me which I shared with you... are not what you were expecting or used to hearing, dear Javig. But it is the truth. You asked if my Lord is a "god"... and I answered you truthfully: a "god"... is an immortal, whether such immortal be real... or imagined. Whether he/she/it be true... or false. I shared the view that I received from my Lord that he is immortal... that immortals are gods... and thus he is a god. Is he an imagined god? No. Is he a FALSE god? Absolutely not. Neither could EVER be the case. But he is not the MOST High God... JAH of Armies.
I do read the word of GOD and speak to Him and I know if what he verbally tells me doesn't fit HIS written word something is wrong...
Well, at least we agree on one thing: that our Lord speaks. Very few are in agreement with us on this. Where we differ, however, is whether you can "read" the Word of God. Now, I can show you... IN THE BIBLE... who/what that Word is. Show me, please... where the Bible says that IT... is the Word of God. ANYWHERE. Please. But, okay. So, you read... and then speak to our Lord... and then he speaks to you... and you know if what he tells you doesn't fit with [His] written word... "something is wrong." Yes? Okay. May I ask you:
At Matthew 7:1, Christ is recorded to have said: "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." However, at 1 Corinthians 5:9, 10... Paul states: "Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?" At another place Christ is recorded to have said: "But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren." However, at 1 Timothy 2:7 and 2 Timothy 1:11, Paul states that he... was APPOINTED as teacher:
"For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth."
"For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher..."
Given what you've stated above, then, you have vehemently rejected Paul's "appointment," yes?
His not speaking to me is somebody else
May I ask you, dear Javig... WHO is it that you are speaking to? What is his/its NAME?
My LORD can't contradict Himself with is verbal and written words otherwise He will be a divine liar. As you see I do believe in the Infallible word of God, the Bible.
I absolutely agree with regard to the first part of your statement. Where you and I differ, however, is as to whether the Bible... is infallible OR God's written word. I do not agree that it is either. As to its infallibility, let me ask you:
1. Where is the Book of Jashar? Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18
2. Where is the written prophesy of Enoch (which must have been written, in order for Jude to be able to refer to it)? Jude 14
3. Where is Paul's FIRST letter to the Corinthians? 1 Corinthians 5:9; 2 Corinthians 13:3
4. What is meant at Jeremiah 8:8, which states:
"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie."
5. What is meant at John 5:39, 40, which states:
"You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."
6. If the Bible is the infallible word of God, meaning everything in it is TRUTH... which means nothing could have been changed:
a. How do you explain all of the different versions, particularly where THEY disagree?
b. What was the point in including the following words at the end of the Revelation, IF the words could NOT be changed:
"... every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."
Of course there is secondary issues that we can disagree and debate with out hatred but share. But the main and plain things is perfectly written for us...example...GOD s nature...
This, again, is another area where you and I disagree. You look to a book, the Bible, to "see" God's nature. I look to Christ. Since the Bible tells us about HIM...and since HE is the image of God... and since HE is recorded to have said, "If you see ME, you see GOD"... I have learned to skip a step. Meaning, I can read a book that tells me about One I should look to/at... OR... I can just look to/at the One it [the Bible] tells me to. Since life is short and I don't have a lot of time anyway... I think the latter is, well, wiser.
Haven't said this. I have been reading discreetly and discerning every word you posted in here since 10-26-09 and on. Pretty soon I will come up with a conclusion and your will be the only one to correct me of my conclusion because is based in everything you have said. Since you proclaim most of your words comes from the LORD himself we will see who is lying...you or your LORD or both...
May I ask you to do one more thing, please? Go to God, the MOST Holy One of Israel... through Christ. Ask Him to send you His Truth. Tell Him that you want to KNOW Him... and His Truth. Then... if you can... put faith in what you hear... and see... as a result. I am not asking you to do anything difficult. Indeed, it is what you SHOULD do... even if I hadn't asked.
also I am using the bible as my proof guide to make my conclusion since is the only proof that I have from the LORD himself concerning Himself...
I used to think it was the only proof, too. Until my Lord asked me, and now I ask you: what proof did the disciples have that the One who came to them and said, "Follow me," is the same one that the Bible prophesied about? What had he done/said to lead them to that conclusion? How about the Samaritan woman at the well? Did these go, check their Bibles, then come back and say, "Yep, it's you, alright?" OR... did they simply put faith in what he TOLD them?
i am doing all this to find the answer to my question...is jesus a god? So far you have said yes and gave your explanation and reasons...I am also trying to answer the question but my brain could go so far as well as the written word...in other words I get stuck.
You make me smile, a big warm smile, dear Javig! I know EXACTLY what you mean and how you feel! I was like you!! How can you KNOW??? All these Bible versions, and all of these teachings, interpretations, beliefs, doctrines, religions, creeds... WHAT AM I TO BELIEVE??? WHAT IS THE TRUTH??? And so... I went directly to the Source. Cut out ALL of the middlemen. Every last one of them. I asked God to send me HIS truth... and He sent His Son. The rest... is history. I have listened ONLY to him since.
Soon I will let you know what are those things even thou you have answered some...in the mean time I am asking you to help me with my conclusion even more...thanks...
I am GLAD to be of service to you, dear Javig, truly. My service is to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... as sheep who belong to my Lord and Master, the Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHJAH, the Holy One of Israel and Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. He cares for them, and so, so do I. But my service is limited. I am only to tell you about that Master... and about His Father and God... in all truth. I can only share what he gives me to share. At some point, I am told to remove myself. Because they sheep do not belong to me.
You said: First, the word of my Lord to you, dear "Javig," is that he does not "deal" in "theological" explanations, but in the truth. And only the truth...I do agree GOD is a GOD of thruh. Theological explanations is something that we dedcuct from his truth and is not wrong been theological... "Theological" has to do with gods..... I agree and disagree read here http://www.answers.com/topic/theology and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theologyand here [see link in your post] ...sometimes this "theological" word can be apply to gods (that is if you think they exist which you do and said jesus is a god)...but also can be apply to GOD in the sense of studying or understanding GOD or as the bible defines best...
I can only relate to you what my Lord gives me to relate. If you disagree, it is a matter to be taken up between you and him. If YOU think he should "deal" in matters that originate with earthly men and their definitions, explanations, and interpretations, when you should probably be the one to tell him that. As for me... I simply accept what he said to me. In faith. Without question.
Col 1:9-10 "For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God"
Unfortunately, I am not satisfied with that. For ME, I needed to go BEYOND increasing in the "knowledge of God." I need to increase in KNOWING God... and I can ONLY do that through KNOWING Christ. The Bible can tell me about him... but only to a degree. He can tell about himself to the fullest extent. I choose the latter.
exactly Jesus is the WORD of GOD in flesh that's why HIS written word can't contradict Himself and that's why I go in prayer to him as well his written word.
Okay, dear Javig. But please note that the Bible says, "And the Word became flesh." It does NOT say, "And the Word became flesh... and was written." Also, may I ask: If you go to him... why do you need to ALSO go to anything/one else? Does he himself not answer you? If not, why not? If so, can you not put faith in his answers? If not, why not? And if it is indeed him speaking, why do you need a "second" witness?
Proverbs 8:4-9...I love that verse but I don't think in any sense its talking about Jesus is talking about wisdom...
And who is Wisdom? I will tell you: it is Christ. He is the Way, the Truth, the Life, the Tree of Life, the True Vine, the Root of Jesse, Wisdom, the Word, the Son, the Holy Spirit. It is, isn't it, HIM... that the scripture "bear witness" to, yes? John 5:40
I wanted to ask you since you mentioned that verse...you said Jesus was produced according to Prov 8...tell me how you came to that conclusion?
Well, primarily, because he told me this truth. Unlike the angels and physical realm, my Lord was not created. To be created, something comes from nothing. He, however, was born. He is the Son of God's love. Thus, he came... from SOMETHING. He "came forth"... from the Father. The words "came forth" mean the same as the word "produced." The vegetation came forth from the land. The land... produced the vegetation.
I don't believe no one Is MY leader, JESUS is the ONLY ONE...but I do think that there are leaders that Jesus established them for the edification of HIS BODY...like apostles..prohets...Ephe 4:7-16 and 1 Cor 12...
Yes, well, please see my comments as to Paul's statements in this regard, above. Also, may I ask you, what is meant by John's words as recorded at 1 John2:26, 27?
"I write this to you about those who would deceive you; but the anointing which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him."
May I ask you: why didn't John say, "his anointing and the Bible teaches you about everything"?
you see Jesus is THE LEADER and because HE has establish leaders here in earth for the benefit of the church
Please... PLEASE... show me where he did this. Please. And I am not speaking about when Paul said HE was established as a leader. I want to see where Christ himself said he was establishing leaders. Because everything I read from HIM... says we have only ONE Leader... him. While you're looking that up, I will share this truth with you:
There WERE those who were assigned to look after God's flock... as to their PHYSICAL BODIES. These were to make sure that everyone ate, that the widows and orphans were looked after, and that when those who had gave, it was distributed properly and equally to those in need. They were called "overseers" (episkopos)... and their task was to oversee... the DISTRIBUTION OF FOOD, CLOTHING, MONEY, and other 'world' goods that was to be given to the poor among them. Acts 4:32-35; 6:1-6; Genesis 41:34; Acts 20:28; 1 Timothy 3:1, 2; 1 Peter 2:25
These are "hired men" whose job it is to look after the SOULS (meaning the LIVING BODIES)... and NOT the FAITH... of God's sheep. 1 Corinthians 1:24 The FAITH of the sheep... is the responsibility of the GOOD Shepherd... of which there is only one. Christ. John 10:11-14
my duty is to see those leaders as leaders but never as the leader, that title belong to JESUS...
And MY duty is to see those leaders... NOT as leaders... but as men who may be tasked with keeping a watch over my physical life... but NEVER my spirit life.
if I copy and paste anyones doctrine I will make sure their doctrine goes hand in hand with scripture...
But, see, that is a bit of a problem for me, dear Javig. In my view, you are merely parroting what someone else has TOLD you to believe. Which is the same as the WTBTS. Any JW can do what you are doing: cut and paste information from WT articles. Their Bible version comports with their teachings. As does the KJV for those who use it. And the RSV for those who use it. And the Douay for those who use it. Etc., etc., etc. I would MUCH rather you state what YOU believe... and include the scriptures/verses that you believe support YOUR beliefs. NOT cut and paste someone else's beliefs... even if those comport with the scriptures from the Bible version you choose to use.
talk to you later
I look forward to it. And, as always, I bid you peace!
YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,
SA
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AGuest
May you have peace!
It is neither too important... nor do I not want to share. But, as my Lord is recorded to have said, these things are not for everyone... and I am not to throw my "pearls"... before "swine". My apologies if that offends you - I truly do not mean to, but only to explain why I couldn't just simply respond before. The truth regarding this matter is NOT mine... and so I cannot just put it out there without leave to do so. Indeed, even before I responded now, I asked whether I should respond to you here... or through Private Messaging (PM). Because, apparently, there are other who wish to know as well, my Lord has granted that I respond here, on the open forum. So be it.
If GOD knew that you one day you will be a god, then why he created you as a human being?
The answer to this question is one of the great "sacred secrets/mysteries" contained in the Bible, dear Javig. It relates to the existence we had... in the spirit realm... before coming into the physical one. Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10; 3:15
Let me explain:
The MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... God... is a cultivator. A gardener. A "sower" of "seed." HIS seed. His reproductive seed. Genesis 2:8; John 15:1
He has a "wife," a "free woman." She is called "Jerusalem Above," and she is the spirit realm. Revelation 12:1; Galatians 4:26
Because of His love for this "woman," a Son came forth, the Holy One of Israel, Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. He is the first "seed" of that woman... the male child which she gave birth to. He is the "only-begotten" son of God... BY that Woman. (God had another son, Adham, who He begat with His "slave" wife, the earth... the physical realm.)
Because of His love for that Woman... AND for the male child she bore... God swore to the Woman that she would have other "children". Romans 8:29 Before her seed could be fertilized (by God's holy spirit) and born, however, it became apparent that they had enemies in the spirit realm. Matthew 6:13; Ephesians 6:12; Psalm 110:1; 1 Corinthians 15:25, 26
In order to preserve this seed until it could be fertilized, conceived, and born... which will be done by Christ, the Word (Logos) of God... 1 Peter 1:23... God sent it to the physical realm. To hide it. He did this by placing it in Adham, and thus, it came to be in Eve, the woman who came out of Adam. Genesis 3:20 The term "foundation" or "founding" of the world literally means "throwing down of seed." As in sowing seed. Matthew 13:35; 25:34; Ephesians 1:4; Matthew 13:3-9
Thus, the seed of the Woman came to be "treasure... hidden in earthen vessels." 2 Corinthians 4:7 This means the seed was placed in PHYSICAL bodies... in order to hide it from its enemies... until such time as it could be conceived with God's seed/semen (holy spirit) and the woman could give birth to it. Isaiah 54:1-15
However, Adham "sold" that seed... to its enemy, death. In exchange for being granted to "know" bad (i.e., know death, and yet live)... Adham chose to give his progeny... the seed. He did come to know bad (death), but contrary to what he THOUGHT... he did not get to know death... and still live. Instead, he was given a new body, a "long garment of skin," which garment enslaved him... and his progeny, the seed... to sin and death. So that by the time the seed came to be in Adham's son, Seth... it, too, was enslaved to its enemy: sin and death.
And so the seed passed through the flood in Noah, through his son, Shem. Down from Shem... to Abraham... and because of Abraham's faith and love by not withholding HIS only-begotten son by HIS free wife, Sarah (because he had other sons, including Ishmael, by Abraham's slave wife, Hagar)... through Abraham's son, Isaac, then Isaac's son Jacob (Israel). From there, that seed was disbursed into 12 tribes.
These, this seed, are those referred to as "the holy ones."
That is why Paul opened many of his letters with "to the holy ones... AND to..." etc. It is why he said to the Ephesians, "You are FELLOW citizens of the holy ones." Romans 1:7; 11:13; 1 Corinthians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1; 2:19; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:2 They (the holy ones) are those who were supposed to be born in the spirit realm, like Christ, but because of their enemies there... had to be hidden in the physical realm. Ephesians 6:12 There, in the spirit realm, they would have been gods (i.e., sons of the MOST High God). And they will be, yet, because their Head, Christ, gave HIS life to buy them BACK from death. He redeemed them. Purchased them. With his blood. Along with others whom God has/will ADOPT as that seed... by means of His holy spirit.
These are the ones seen with Christ on Mount Zion... singing the "new" song that no one was able to master BUT them. Revelation 14:1-13
So, to answer your question in summary:
These are humans... in the sense that they are spirit beings hidden in "earthen vessels"... bodies of flesh [with its blood]... until such time as they can be born of the Woman... Jerusalem Above, who is their mother and so gives birth to them. Galatians 4:26; Isaiah 66:10-12
This occurs when, by means of Christ, they are released from the body of flesh [with its blood] and give a NEW garment [of skin], a WHITE robe... the spirit body. Prior to that, they were conceived with God's holy spirit... by means of Christ. God put His spirit into Christ... so that such conception could take place. 1 Peter 2:23 Simply put: they were "planted" here for their safety and well-being... until the Woman gives birth. And she gives birth to them all... at one time. In this way, an entire nation... is born... in ONE day. Isaiah 66:7-12
MY LORD can't answer my question becuase according to his written word in genesis 1:26-27 " 26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all [b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them....he creates mankind to his image , male and female, not gods to his own image...
A couple/few things here:
1. Albeit of their mother, the earth, Adham and Eve were created as gods, in the sense that they, too, were immortal. How is that? They received their SPIRITS... i.e., life force... from the MOST Holy One of Israel. He "blew into" [Adham's] nostrils. His holy spirit (and I am not referring to THE Holy Spirit)... is His blood, His semen, His life force. Adham received his life force... from God. However, when they sinned and as a result were cut off from eating from the Tree of Life... which is what sustains immortals... gods... they began to die. Psalm 78:25; John 6:41, 48 Had they been able to get back into the garden, however, they would have be able to eat... again... from the Tree of Life... which is CHRIST, the TRUE "Vine" and "Root" of Jesse... and lived forever. John 15:1; John 6:51; Revelation 22:1, 2
God gave them skin, however, and as a result their immortal bodies became... enslaved... bound... trapped... so as to have a mortal existence. Genesis 3:21 To reverse this "curse," through Christ the mortal bodies of that seed will one day be changed back... to have the immortal existence they were to have before "the founding of the world."
2. WE... were not made in God's image. ADHAM (and Eve, since she same OUT of him) were made in God's image. WE... are made in ADHAM'S image. His image AFTER he sinned. If we were made in the same image that Adham was made in... we would have NO sin. Like Adham, when he was made... and Christ, who is the IMAGE of God.
3. Since Adham WAS made in GOD'S image... and Christ IS THE IMAGE OF GOD... then, based on your reasoning (i.e., that Christ, who is the image of God is also God)... Adham, too, was God, yes? Yet, you do not include him as part of your Trinity. If you don't believe that Adham was a god, let alone God... then my Lord directs me to ask you, how is it then, that he was God's SON... and yet, he was not GOD (as you believe Christ, God's OTHER Son, Adham's half-brother, to be)? Luke 3:38; Hebrews 1:3
4. Finally, I am also directed to ask you: to whom was God referring to in the second half of the statement He made to Job at Job 38:7? There, it refers to the "sons of God," which some believe to be the angels. Yet, Hebrews 1:5 asks, "... to what angel did God ever say, 'Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee'? Or again, 'I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son'?"
I know these things are hard for some to understand, dear Javig, perhaps even including you. But because you asked and my Lord consented, I had to reply. And I did so with the truth... "strange" as it may seem to you. I am not alone in knowing of these things. Some others, however, have used this truth to coerce people into doing horrid things such as taking it upon themselves to "put off" their own flesh. Or other things so as to "hurry" God's purpose and timetable. But it is not up to us. Nothing we do, say, or think can hurry the process. The only thing WE can do... is tell others... while WE wait patiently for our LORD to act... on our behalf.
I have answered you truthfully with regard to these things, just as such were given me by my Lord. I am also to state to you that, while it is understandable that you don't believe me... to be speaking in truth... or with the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy Spirit and Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... there is something you might want to consider:
I have absolutely NO ulterior motive. I do not publish these truths for a profit. I am not writing a book, nor am I asking a fee, donation, or contribution. I do not need your... or anyone's money. I received it free. I give it free. I don't not ask anyone to join anything... including me. There is no "where" for you to go: no meeting, no conference, no gathering, no church, no Hall, no synagogue. I only share what I do... because either (1) my Lord directly directs me to... or (2) someone is thirsting, and thus asking. Like you, in this case.
I am not seeking your approval, your thanks, your kudos, or your glory. You have nothing I want. I am an educated person, and make a pretty decent living. NOT because of anything of myself... but because of what my Lord has given me... and gives me. HE got me through Law School, not me myself. HE grants me employment of a level where I do not need to be asking anyone for anything, but instead, am able to help others from time to time.
You... have nothing I need. And I am not directing you to myself... or asking you to listen to... or believe... me. Rather, in exchange for the WONDERFUL gift(s) given me by the MOST Holy One of Israel, my God and Father, JAH of Armies... THROUGH my Lord and Master, the HOLY One of Israel, His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the Holy Spirit... I am submitted myself as their servant... and yours. And I can only encourage you... indeed EXHORT you... to go to THEM. Ask THEM. Look to THEM. Listen to THEM. Seek THEM.
I can only say, from the bottom of my heart, just as the Spirit and Bride keep saying, "COME! Take the "water" that flows from the innermost parts of the Son of God... the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... LIVING WATER... which is the holy spirit of God... His blood, semen, life force... FREE!"
And THAT... is my message. It is the same message I have been heralding for some time. Certainly since I came to this "place." ALL of the other stuff... is, well, really... secondary. It is... "the details." But KNOWING... the details... will not give you life. The ONLY thing that will give you life... is holy spirit. And the ONLY way you GET holy spirit... is to EAT... from the Tree of Life... Christ... by means of eating his flesh... and to DRINK... from the rock-mass... Christ... by means of drinking his blood. Do these LEAST things... dear Javig... in FAITH that it IS the flesh and blood of Christ... and by means of it you WILL live forever... and the rest will fall into place. John 14:23
Because by means of this... keeping this "least" commandment... you open the way for God and Christ to come INTO you... INTO your vessel... and dwell IN you. And it is in this way that you are "led"... by God's spirit. It is in THIS way... the God speaks to you... by means of Christ who speaks to you... because it is the BLOOD... that speaks. Hebrews 12:24
I bid you peace... and ears to hear these truths... if you so wish them!
YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,
SA
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javig
To aguest
Hola...again thanks for answering...uupps..sorry..thanks to your lord for answering not you...please let him know...i do "get" it im not stupid...i know you are a vessel and i do "get" it...i am too a vessel and like to point this verse regarding my vessel doctrine 2 cor 4:7..but in ordeer to understand the whole thing read chapter 4 and 5...anyway...at least we agree that we both we are vessels...
I will answer your question but not today i dont have tim now...is almost time for me to go to work...in the mean time let me ask you another question before assuming incorrectly...do you congregate with others believers? im not asking which domination you go...i dont care about that... that means nothing to me...im asking if you fellowship with other believers, people, that believe the same thing you do?...the reason i asked becuase you had said
"I do not claim a religion... nor do I belong to some "church." Along with others, I AM the church... a living stone... in the temple of God... which temple is NOT made by man's hands... but is being built by Christ, its cornerstone... and the stone which those you've named reject."
please be patient i will answer your questions...talk to you later
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AGuest
May you have peace!
At the outset, let me apologize if you were offended. Very often, however, it is easier to "forget" God and Christ in these discussions and I don't ever want to do that... or have someone give the attention, glory, or response that is due to THEM... to me. As you wrote, I am just the vessel - the servant, here.
Yes, I absolutely DO... ummmm "gather" with others. Most partake and have received holy spirit. Others are on their way, but haven't quite "overcome" the "strongly entrenched" teachings of the WTBTS, etc. I recently had some come and visit from over 400 miles away. And we will go visit them before the month-end. When we get together we encourage one another and build one another up. We wash one another's feet. We share in partaking of the flesh and blood of our Lord. We share experiences. We encourage one another. If there is anyone among us that has the gift of prophesying, they do. If someone speaks in a tongue, they do, and perhaps another interprets. That they have such gifts does not mean they are always used. Depends on the spirit. If someone has been given new understanding, it is shared with those who may have not yet received it.
There are no prayers, however, other than to give thanks (for Christ's flesh and blood, and the Father providing it, and or our fleshly food). There is no "leader." We are all equal and equally love and respect one another. We serve each other in every way we can. Sometimes our children are also present, sometimes not (depends on who's present, age of kids, etc.). So, it is a very casual atmosphere.
When the group came to see me last, they did some repairs to our roof (the last storm had blown some shingles off, causing a pretty bad leak. Our roof is extremely steep, and so my husband couldn't make the repairs. One of the other husbands, however, when he saw it, refused to go home... over 400 miles away... until he had fixed it. Took him all day, but our roof was tight when the next storm hit the next day!). When we go see them, we help where they need it, whatever it may be.
We don't hust have love FOR one another... but have come to actually love one another... because of the love that Christ has for ALL of us. We realize that whatever we "do" to one another, we are "doing" to Christ. So we are all very respectful, kind, loving, giving to one another. There is nothing that cannot be asked... or said. We are "safe" with each other... and free. While Christ is the very CENTER of our gathering, it is not a "religious" gathering. Again, it is quite casual. We go out and eat. Go to the movies. Go shopping, sight seeing, whatever. It simply like a family coming together and spending time together (and sometimes the members present vary)... and when we do we talk about our families... as well as... our Head... and our Father. Challenges, adversities, how the Spirit helped, guided, saved us... directed us to someone, gave us a sacred secret, directed someone to us (that latters happens all the time - someone will call one of us up and have questions, etc.).
But it is not like "going to church" or "meetings." We ARE the church of God, the Congregation of the Firstborn, the Body of Christ. So that when we do get together... we just, well... ARE. We are ourselves... we act like ourselves... be like ourselves. There is no male or female, elder or younger, more spirit or less spirit, leader or layperson, teacher or student, etc. Nothing like that. Even if there is a "problem" - which is rare. When it does occur, we handle it according to Matthew 18:15-17. We have never gotten to verse 17.
As a result, there is... love, joy, peace, faith, kindness, mildness, goodness, patience... and self-control. One for another. Each in and of him or her self... and toward all others. We did not/do not, all of us, have these "fruits" at the start, but everyone develops them, eventually, by sharing their gifts with each other... and "walking the talk." We have learned that iron... sharpens iron.
I bid you peace, dear Javig, and look forward to your responses.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA