Ok, I've gone back and re-read Revelation chapter 22 again and again.
It is Both who are coming!
Sylvia
One and the same.
is jesus a god?
by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible
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jonathan dough
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Chalam
An important verse :)
Revelation 1 (New International Version)
1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John All the best, Stephen -
snowbird
Revelation 22: 6 -7 The Angel said to me, "These are dependable and accurate words, every one. The God and Master of the spirits of the prophets sent his Angel to show his servants what must take place, and soon. And tell them, 'Yes, I'm on my way!' Blessed be the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book." MSG
Some things are hiding in plain view!
LOL.
Sylvia
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Chalam
John 10:30 (New International Version)
30 I and the Father are one.
All the best,
Stephen
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Chalam
Some things are hiding in plain view!
I had good discussion with JWs regarding Revelation 22:13
Some told me it was "Jehovah", others said "the angel" was speaking for "Jehovah". None wanted to admit it was Jesus as that title makes Jesus God, not "a god".
All the best,
Stephen
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sacolton
The entire context shows that it is Christ who is the One who is coming quickly. The Father is not coming quickly and it is totally begging the question to say that solely the Father is coming quickly representatively through Christ. The One who is coming quickly (who is identified as such unambiguously throughout the entire New Testament) is Christ. The One who is coming quickly also claims to be the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. It is an unequivocal reference to the Deity of Christ as the rest of the chapter even makes more explicit when the closing words are the call for Christ, not the Father, to come.
Furthermore, when did The Father ever die?
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Who died and was resurrected to glory forever and ever? Jesus!
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leavingwt
Mr. Deity and the Identity Crisis
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truthlover
I havent posted for awhile,but this subject interests me so the questions I have, if someone can answer , who is it sitting at the right hand of God - -- and who is it that Jesus gives the cleansed earth,system, etc. back to......
Is he sitting at his own right hand, and does he give himself back the cleansed earth after all things have been conquered?
Looking at the Living Bible rather than the NWT Acts 7:55 and Heb 10:12 state he is at God's right hand.. granted one was a situation with Stephen, the other was not..
Eph 2:6,7 shows that God seated the Holy Ones together with Christ -
1Cor 15:28 says the Son will subject HIMSELF to the ONE who subjected all things to HIM... neat trick to give yourself back something...
1 Cor 15:23,24 - very interesting -- mentions 1) the Holy Ones 2) Christ and 3 ) God the Father
Phil 2:9 -- God exalted HIM (Jesus) so we all should worship JESUS
and not to continue, the last one I shall offer is 1 John5:1,5-8 -- context is Do YOU doubt Christ is God's SON?? vs 10: Anyone who doesn't believe this is calling God a liar...
I personally believe that God is Almighty, and Jesus is mighty God, as the bible states, Prince of Peace, etc..
Thanks for your perusal....
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jonathan dough
I havent posted for awhile,but this subject interests me so the questions I have, if someone can answer , who is it sitting at the right hand of God - -- and
It all starts with the hypostatic union. Jesus was and is God-man, the hypostatic union. Jesus does not cease being human in heaven (Fundamentals of Christology, 318). Thus He, the sacrificed Lamb, can be seen as being at the right hand of the Father.
who is it that Jesus gives the cleansed earth,system, etc. back to......
Which specific verse are your referring to?Is he sitting at his own right hand, and does he give himself back the cleansed earth after all things have been conquered?
Same answer as above. You must distinguish between the God-man. Christ, the resurrected man who did not cease being human, can be seen then, at God's right hand, tendering back to God the Almighty.
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jonathan dough
1Cor 15:28 says the Son will subject HIMSELF to the ONE who subjected all things to HIM... neat trick to give yourself back something...
Any subordination of God the Son to God the Father was relational, a change in status or order of precedence, but not in His essential being as He remained fully God, albeit with a veiled Glory. God the Son’s subordination is voluntary. It does not mean He is not equal to God in essence.
Because the risen Christ never ceased to be human in heaven (Fundamentals of Christology, 318) apt parallels can be drawn. Just as there was a visual (and conceptual) distinctiveness between the created humanity of Jesus on earth, some of those distinctions can be carried over into heaven (i.e., the resurrected human stood in God’s presence). But just because the Lamb is “seen” as distinct from “God,” that does not sever the divine Son from God; it does not make them completely independent and separate entities particularly when it is remembered that Jesus is the Almighty, and shares His throne, and is the Alpha and Omega as detailed in the following sections. Recall also that the resurrected created humanity is ultimately folded into the Trinity.
The Jehovah’s Witnesses should be careful in relying too heavily on the symbolic visions of the Book of Revelation. After all, spirit is invisible to us, as is God the Almighty.
This brings us to 1 Corinthians 15:24, 28 which the Jehovah’s Witnesses rely heavily on to show that the heavenly Jesus can’t be God because in the everlasting future in heaven Jesus will remain subject to God, and therefore He can’t be God (Should You Believe, Chapter 7). But this refers to God the Son’s voluntary subordination in the Trinitarian sense, subjection not as creatures are, but “as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father” (Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary on 1 Corinthians 15:28). Just because you voluntarily take a job scrubbing floors doesn’t mean you are less human than your employer, even if you feel that way. Remember, one must always ask, “equal in what sense?”
The one who subjected everything to him: the Father is the ultimate agent in the drama, and the final end of the process, to whom the Son and everything else is ordered (24, 28). That God may be all in all: his reign is a dynamic exercise of creative power, an outpouring of life and energy through the universe, with not further resistance. This is the supremely positive meaning of “subjection”: that God may be fully God. (Cathlolic NAB notes 15,27b-28)