To Current and Former Elders

by Styxx 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  winstonchurchill

  Billy: Probably right; Styxx sounds like a disgruntled JW who hasn't received "privileges'

  OldSeeker: It's true any elder acts limited by the WTS boundaries, but I think the attitude (big ego, power trips, etc.) does make things worse. While it's not the (main) reason I'm still in, and certainly I'm not even thinking of a "change from the inside", I have found I can make a lot of good for rank and files and curb some fellow elder's abusive attitudes.

  Purps: Absolutely right about the organization losing gems. When I inquire about the circuits I used to serve, I'm appaled to hear the news of the best, more capable and loving elders steping down (or leaving for good), and the most mediocre ones being in charge. I think that speaks a lot about the organization.

  I said it before, and I'll say it again: ATJ is someone I'd like to sit with to chat and quaf some beers.

  OTWO: Some elders do think ouside the box, and are not 'Do-More' maniacs. But you are right, it is an insignificant minority.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  It's really an interesting direction to look at. Because the GB runs a cult, they are stuck to their idiotic rules.

  Since the 1970's in particular, this cult has grown in large part due to the amount of men appointed as elders. That isn't an accident. I doubt that the GB had that kind of forethought, but if it did, good for them.

  With more work to do, KH's to build, conventions to arrange, having many elders allowed the GB through CO's to appoint who would be a good fit for them.

  As noted by many here, since 1995, when the amount of elders has dwindled, the challenge for the GB is how to tackle that problem. One solution was to appoint young men in their mid 20's. As has been noted, many pros for the GB, tons of cons for the congregations who have to put up with leadership from young men who stopped picking their zits a year or two prior....

  These are self inflicted wounds of the GB. There is no answer for the shrinking pool of "qualified" men to choose from, unless an amazing paradigm shift happens within the GB.

  They insist on cult like behavior, and they need elders to administer the cult rules. In the information age, the younger generation has easy access to information the GB would like to keep hidden. Hell, we are living in the "Information Age." It is too late to scare off this generation now.

  I am not saying that the GB sees it this way. They are hoping/praying that they can still keep people, esp young men, off the internet. Amazing to me. That is a big time losing bet.

  The consequences of all this crap is the flock. Every congregation that has to put up with young elders, many of whom are pioneers and are at best married without children (or worse, single bachelors who have never even been married) dispensing life advice to families young and old are worse off. It is very evident that the wisdom lies with people in the audience, living it.

  Of course, because the GB defines wise people as "those who believe our batshit crazy WT articles", it's a lose/lose situation for all. No leadership, no wisdom, just a channel available to the GB to control, manipulate, and guilt people into staying. What a miserable existence.
• 

  Doubting Bro

  No leadership, no wisdom, just a channel available to the GB to control, manipulate, and guilt people into staying.

  And that's exactly what they want. They don't care about the flock or any individual JW. They don't care about the elders they have that are trying to be sheppards, trying to provide support the folks that they think God has entrusted to them. The GB cares about control and money. It didn't take long for me to figure that out. It did take much longer to realize that reform was not possible.

  I always got the sense that the GB really didn't like the elder arrangement and COs in particular REALLY don't like most of the local elders. But, as you pointed out, they have to have them to keep control.
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  lepermessiah

  As noted by many here, since 1995, when the amount of elders has dwindled, the challenge for the GB is how to tackle that problem. One solution was to appoint young men in their mid 20's. As has been noted, many pros for the GB, tons of cons for the congregations who have to put up with leadership from young men who stopped picking their zits a year or two prior....

  ATJ - This is such a key point. I was on a body a few years ago, and there was a young Ministerial Servant who was pioneering and had just finished MTS school. His name came up for discussion as an elder.

  I was totally against appointing the young man as an elder. He was (barely) 24 years old. He was a total born-in and was thus totally naive when it came to the ways of the world. This young man was very, very smart, but he lived a very sheltered life. I was appointed in my mid-20's and I had to sit in meetings that would make a sailor blush There was NO WAY I felt that he was ready to be an elder! Sure, he could give excellent talks, was a great speaker, etc....but what was he going to do when he was sitting on a committee dealing with serious personal issues? All he was TRAINED to do was either reproof or disfellowship - he was not equipped to ponder over such deep things and realize he was dealing with a REAL person across the table..... (Of course, even old, experienced elders often fall into the same catagory.)

  The rest of the body agreed to wait to appoint him- for HIS sake. Sure enough, we got a letter back from the branch stating that unless there was an OUTSTANDING reason why not, he should be appointed immediately. Needless to say, he was appointed ASAP. The last time I saw the poor guy, he looked like he had been run over by a frieght train. Based on my experience and many others, I think elders age in dog-years!!!!
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  oldseeker

  "The end justifies the means". Could this be the GB's motto? I think so, however, as Jesus approached it, the "means and the end" are the same. There is a difference in the attitude.

  From the book Power vs. Force by Dr. David R. Hawkins:

  "Adolf Hitler assembled the greatest military machine the world has ever seen. On the simple level of force, his military was unbeatable; yet he could not defeat a tiny island across the English Channel because of the power expressed by Winston Churchill, who unified the will of his people through principles of freedom and selfless sacrifice. Churchill stood for power, Hitler for force. When the two meet, power always eventually succeeds; in the long run, if it's deeply founded in the will of the people, power is immune to force."

  A distinctive characteristic of force is that it cannot tolerate dissent, which usually results in tyranny (as with Hitler). Do the rank and file feel empowered by the GB and the elders? The honest answer to this is no. They are not free to express themselves openly, there is no forum for honest debate (freedom).

  The average elder is a "blue-collar" worker thrust into a position of not power, but force. How they respond to the change in the control they now have is very telling. Some become very compassionate and use their position for good. The others, sadly in the majority, are now free to use force in a way that they have never had before, their secular work doesn't give them any power, but now suddenly they have it in the congregation.

  I highly recommend Hawkins book. It gives a wonderful perspective of human behavior. It's a little deep but worth it.

  oldseeker
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  winstonchurchill

  I always got the sense that the GB really didn't like the elder arrangement and COs in particular REALLY don't like most of the local elders.

  100% right. That's why CO's tend to work with juts one guy. They may meet with all, they may pat in the back some, but when it's serious business they deal with one or two (usually the PO and the Sec). I even have a formula for this: The more old-school the CO is, the more he tends to do that. Only newer, more open CO's (not a lot of those) deal with the whole BOE.
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  winstonchurchill

  "Adolf Hitler assembled the greatest military machine the world has ever seen. On the simple level of force, his military was unbeatable; yet he could not defeat a tiny island across the English Channel because of the power expressed by Winston Churchill,

  Hey, maybe that's why I chose this nick!
• 

  JWoods

  Uptight teetotaler lady to WC: "Sir Winston, I would rather have sex under this table than take a drink of that wine."

  Churchill replies: "Madame, so would I."
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  cantleave

  Styxx not come back yet? Well there's a surprise.
• 

  AllTimeJeff

  Winston Churchill quotes: (as applicable to JW's in a variety of circumstances) We'll have to have that WC.

  Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed.

  An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.

  A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

  A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

  A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

  Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.