Satanus, I confronted him on this teaching, and he believes God will understand because of all the good he does for other ppl in his profession. I told him I thought police officers couldn't be baptized, and he said they changed the rules......Hmmmmm.................... I'm praying that his independent, lone wolf nature will eventually see the forest through the trees. But another part of me believes that because of his questionable past before he became a cop that he is just looking for somebody to punish him, not what he says, that he's looking for some peace. I pray God sends him the peace he's looking for before he gets settled into a Hall and they prey on his guilt. He is a really, really good person. I know I'm buying into a boatload of heartache, but for the time being Im not giving up on him. That would be very un-Christian. I'm going to order those books you guys suggested.
I need answers to so MANY questions.....
by Confuzzled 74 Replies latest jw friends
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Robdar
I know I'm buying into a boatload of heartache, but for the time being Im not giving up on him. That would be very un-Christian.
Wow. You're the first woman I've ever heard say that. Wow.
~sob~ it's just so beautiful to know your love will change this misguided teddy bear of a guy.
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dgp
Confuzzled, part of me congratulates you on the course you've decided to take. Another part of me wants you to be careful because, yes, you're buying into a boatload of heartache. Please do continue your research and be patient, and don't get in, no matter what. You can't help him if you need help yourself.
If you will agree to staying with him, you won't be able to assert yourself unless you know exactly what to expect. Please do read and stay in this forum, and check everything.
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moshe
JW's hate riddles, puzzles and epiphanies. They prefer everything to be in black and white and stamped with the seal of approval by the F&DS (faithful and discreet slave). Since you are anthropologist, you have probably heard of Oetzi, the iceman mummy whose corpse was found frozen in ice on the top of an Alpine glacier almost 20 years ago. Most JW's have never heard of him- you see, he died 5300 years ago- hundreds of years before the Flood of Noah. Somehow his body remained frozen in ice even after 40 days of rain and raging floodwaters that covered the highest mountains. Why, even Jesus testified to the veracity of the Noachian deluge. And therein lies the conundrum of Oetzi, a testament to the real "truth" that all JW's are continually seeking. The JW truth is a razor's edge and for those perched on it's edge who want to leave, they must suffer the consequences. Good luck.-
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Satanus
It's possible the rules have slackened since that article was written in 1973.
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Confuzzled
Not, an anthropologist, started studying, had to quit school, but I still love the field and have a layman's interest in it.........His response to my History degree and interest in the field were "People manipulate history to meet their own ends," and I now realize where the mentality was coming from. I want to strangle whoever warped his brain at this point, and took advantage of his single mother when he was a child and brought his large family into this.
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garyneal
Satanus, Confuzzled: My wife and I talked about the issue of policemen and JW's. Blondie posted some excellent WT articles and everyone pretty much agreed that one can be a police man but was not allowed to carry a gun. View our little 'exchange' here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/182472/1/A-few-questions-concerning-Jehovahs-Witnesses-doctrines
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dgp
Confuzzled, I am sorry if I am the killjoy, but what I see here is that you're trying to find a way to convince him that the Watchtower is wrong. I understand your point, and would very much like it to be that easy. You might plant seeds of doubt in his mind, but most people who have managed to rescue someone say that you just can't reason with a person who has been indoctrinated into not listening to you if you're critical of what he believes. All you can do is plant the seed, and hope he will see things by himself. Ping-pong won't do. He will have an answer for everything. It can be a very bad answer, but he will not be moved. Check this link:
http://www.freeminds.org/psychology/cults/opening-the-closed-mind.html
You need to have a Plan B. "B" as in "Bad". What will you do if he becomes ÜberDub? And you need to draw your line in the sand about how far you'd be willing to compromise. Because the headship thing puts you at a disadvantage.
I am sorry to be this blunt, but I have the feeling that this is one-sided. You're making most of the effort. He's just waiting to be satisfied. He doesn't seem to be moving in your direction, but only in his.
Maybe it would be best if you asked him things that go beyond the Watchtower. For example, does he really love you? What does that love mean for him? Where would he give in for you? What would he do if you never converted?
I hope this helps.
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greenie
Confuzzled, DGP is right. I'm further along in my relationship and I'm also a woman so I see the headship issue more from the viewpoint of how it would affect you.
Let me be clear: it infuriates me and there is ZERO chance that I would ever abide by a headship rule that is so obviously BS and not actually scripturally based. It was created because it suited the needs of the org. Look up the history of Russell and his wife who helped found the org and what happened when she stepped out of line. But I digress and I have a couple of points to make:
1. The problem is not that you as a nonJW will have to follow their headship rules (although they'll expect you to), but rather that HE will get a lot of flack from the congregation for not keeping you and his house in order. That includes any stepchildren, aka, your daughter.
2. DGP and GaryNeal, because they are males, have an advantage thanks to the JW headship rule in that they could mandate celebrations, holidays, possibly church attendance, etc. Their mates can hide behind that if they didn't really want to abandon all the nonJW traditions. Your man will either have to refuse to do any of that with you or your daughter (or try to prevent you from doing them too!), drop the religion (which you can see is not easily happening) or be seen as a weak JW and possibly face punishment if he's baptised.
3. I have found it pointless to discuss doctrine. They will have an answer or will cling to what they've been taught. Half the JWs I don't even think pay attention to doctrine they're taught until they want out of the religion or unless they were an elder or something that had to pay close attention and the GB introduced some BIG change. You might instead show some of the controversies they've been involved in like the pedofile problem (though, tread lightly, no one likes being called a pedofile!), but there are some articles on it from major news organizations that he might be receptive to. Others can tell you more controversies.
But as the others have said, before he's ready to hear it, he simply won't. That is why it's CRITICAL to take it slow. There is NO reason to get married anytime soon. And when someone else said you need to ask yourself if you can do this the rest of your life, you need to seriously think about that. THE REST OF YOUR LIFE is a long time. I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but in the exciting days of love and infatuation, it's easy to think that all of it's doable and to not want to do it makes you selfish and shallow. It doesn't. It's not just religion, it's a whole culture. And if you take your time with this relationship, you can see how/if you can or would want to do it.
I am glad you refuse to talk to others. That is just so weird! And again, I don't know why they all try to get you to talk to others. Like they're bringing out their all-stars.
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greenie
And I should also say, I L-O-V-E my Dub. I want it to work out for us so badly, and I would be heartbroken if it didn't but now that the honeymoon period is over, or has calmed down, I can more clearly see how making these sacrifices (=never celebrating Christmas again, dropping worldly friends, etc.) isn't compatible with me. That doesn't mean we're over. That means that HE is going to have to make some sacrifice, or rather, BOTH of us will have to compromise, which the JW faith doesn't endorse or support. So he has some major decisions to make too.
That's the other point I wanted to make: DO NOT let him put all these major decisions on you. It is true that you can easily become the one to make all the sacrifices and there's no reason for that to happen. Your beliefs are just as important as his, even if he and his entire organized religion say they aren't.
