Lets Debate the Trinity (page 3)

wobble

God is Love, so sayeth a scripture.

Love is All. so sayeth a pop song.

God is everything,so sayeth Designs.

Thus endeth the trinity thread for November, so sayeth Wobble, living in hope.

Earnest

Hi designs,

As Professor Owen of Cambridge said ...

I think the Professor Owen you refer to must be Owen Chadwick who was a Professor of Ecclesiatical History at Cambridge (1958-1968) and wrote "A History of Christianity" and many other works on the reformation, papacy etc. I find your quotation very interesting as he is a clergyman as well as an historian and wonder if you know the source of your quotation.

Earnest

designs

It was prof. John Owen, apparently a Church Historian, writing about the Unitarians and Socinians.

Earnest

Thanks, designs.

Do you perhaps know the book or article (title, date, page) that your quotation comes from. As I have attempted to trace the belief in Unitarianism since the time of the Reformation this is of particular interest.

As far as the trinity is concerned it is interesting how much the early church indulged in argument about words. As Gibbon noted, the entire debate hinged on the difference of the smallest Greek letter (iota) as to whether God was homoousios (same substance) or homoiousios (similar substance).

designs

Earnest, I found it at www.immoderate.wordpress.com under john-ownens-and-the-scripture-only-socinians

One of the early Bishops tried to halt the killing and witch hunts by telling people the fruitages of the spirit: love, kindness etc. were more important than the Filiogue....it maybe saved a few lives.

Earnest

designs, it seems that John Owen did believe in the trinity and actually wrote against the Socinians.

Your quotation

'if you get rid of all of the Greek philosophical vocabulary in Christian theology you cannot express God's threeness-in-oneness in anything approximating a coherent way. You simply can't do it. And historically its the case that whenever people have tried to purge Christianity of what we would call metaphysical language , philosophical language, it always ends up in Unitarianism.'

was actually part of a sermon on John Owen and the Practice of Theology given on 10 July 2005 by Dr Carl R Trueman, Associate Professor of Church History and Historical Theology at Westminster Theological Seminary. You can listen to his sermon and your particular quotation is half a minute or so on at 24:43 - 25:09 of the sermon.

This is not to detract at all from the point you make (and with which I agree) but it is not true that John Owen (or Carl Trueman) rejects the teaching of the trinity.

JosephMalik

but it is not true that John Owen (or Carl Trueman) rejects the teaching of the trinity.

Earnest,

Not this matters to any of us today. What we believe and teach others as disciples is what matters to us. We know from our WT experiences what follow the leader leads to. The time had come to stand on our own two feet and research if we have it.

Joseph

mouthy

Also I believe ..... beliving the Trinity is not a matter of Salvation

HEY ERNEST>>>>>

wobble

If the trinity is so plain, why only two thrones, God and Jesus side by side, as seen by Stephen and the writer of Revelation, why no throne for the H.S ?

love

Wobble

EverAStudent

Wobble wrote: "If the trinity is so plain, why only two thrones, God and Jesus side by side, as seen by Stephen and the writer of Revelation, why no throne for the H.S ?"

Actually, in the Greek there is only ever a singular throne depicted. The Father and the Son sit on one throne, not thrones. Sometimes the Son/Lamb is said to sit in the middle of the throne.

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, (Revelation 22:1)

Lets Debate the Trinity

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