Kelle Jarka

by isaacaustin 74 Replies latest jw friends

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I find it interesting that Witnesses will complain when media reports mention the fact that a criminal is a JW. They say that there's a double standard because the media does not always report the religion of other criminals.

  There are a few problems with this line of reasoning. First, in the Jarka case, the convicted murderer was an elder which is a JW clergyman. I dare say that if a local Baptist minister or Catholic priest was convicted of murder, the fact that he was a minister/priest would definitely be reported. Does anyone disagree?

  Also, even in cases where a rank-and-file Witness is convicted of a crime, I think the criminal's religion is relevant and potentially newsworthy. Why? Well, the Society's position is that all publishers are ministers. As I mentioned above, if a minister of another religion was convicted of a serious crime, it would no doubt be reported.

  Further, the public nature of the JW ministry makes it relevant for the public to know what sort of persons are knocking at their doors. For example, if a rank-and-file Baptist was a convicted thief/pedophile and chose to engage in door-to-door evangelism, I think it would be relevant for the media to mention his religious activities in its reporting. Wouldn't you want to know if such a person was walking around your neighborhood? The same standard should apply to Witnesses.
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  sir82

  Have you ever seen this type of case before?

  What, an elder being convicted of first degree murder? Yeah, there were 6 just last week.

  No, in my experience, I have never dealt with a murder case.
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  isaacaustin

  Sir82,

  I meant have you ever dealt with a person convicted of a crime in a court of law yet claiming innocence?
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  sir82

  Nor a criminal case of any sort.
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  designs

  'Well Ma, I gotts us a real killer elder here so you jus up an leav' that ol JW religion and come on over to the real Born Againers with jenuwine Killer Pastors, hell Ma we gotts 10X the killers on death row as that ol wussy religion you're n.'

  Out of one Cult and into a bigger Cult, now that's progress.................go figure.
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  RubaDub

  did you read about the LA Church that put an ATM machine in the Lobby......

  Not sure what this means ... there have been credit card processing machines at Assemblies in many places for several years now.

  Rub a Dub
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  isaacaustin

  feel so sorry for you designs...a bitter old man.

  go take over this thread now with your crap...I got the info I needed...
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  aSphereisnotaCircle

  On 20/20 they clearly stated he was an elder.
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  undercover

  Isaac, I don't know if this will help but back when I was an MS the CO had a section in his elder/MS meeting about dealing with brothers who were in trouble with the law.

  He gave the example of a brother who was charged with possession of stolen goods. He posed the question, "What should be done by the elder body?" After several elders said that a JC meeting would be in order or at least elders meeting in private with the accused individual, the CO set them all straight. He said that they were to do nothing. If the brother denied wrongdoing and there were no witnesses, then there wasn't anything for them to do. Even if the police found the stolen loot, charged him and the courts found him guilty. Part of the discussion was about comparing God's law vs. man's law. Some things against man's law is not specifically spelled out in the Bible so the elders are limited in what they can do. Another part of the discussion was that the elders are not part of the legal system. They uphold God's law in the congregation only, as a sin affects the congregation. The two witness rule applies in the congregation where it does not in man's legal system.

  Now...we all know that murder is different from a lesser crime, like possession of stolen goods or drunk driving. Murder is a serious crime in both man's and God's book so who knows if all that I just said even applies...but it does back up what sir82 was saying...without two witnesses and a confession, there's not much they can do. I agree that he could be removed as an elder so that he can concentrate on the matter at hand (while conveniently removing the controversy from the elders/Society).

  But, at the same time, the Society is more interested in its reputation as a corporation than that of individual members so if it would serve their interests, I'm sure they could force the issue and have him DFd even without cause. They'll make up new rules if they have to. Ray Franz can testify to that.
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  isaacaustin

  Thanks. Yes, I heard that on the 20/20 video. So definitely an elder at the time of the crime. Bad publicity for 'Jehovah's organization'. It was spoken of at a JW social gathering my parents went to this weekend....where the concern was if householders would mention it to JWs in service.