Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough 204 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jonathan dough

  And another:

  The Messiah is described at Micah 5:2 as being from eternity (Hebrew olam), hence without beginning. Green’s Literal Translation of Micah 5:2 states:

  And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you he shall come forth to Me, to become ruler in Israel; and His goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.

  “Olam” means “eternity; remotest time; perpetuity, i.e., the vanishing point; gen, time out of mind (past or future), always, ever, everlasting, perpetual” (Strong and Vine’s, 205).

  Reference to Christ’s prior eternal existence is also found at Proverbs 8:22 where many commentators equate Wisdom with Christ.

  Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of His way, from then, before His works I was set up from everlasting (Hebrew olam), from the beginning, before the earth ever was (Proverbs 8:22 Green’s Literal Translation).

  “Wisdom is of divine origin. It is here represented as a being which existed before all things (22-26) and concurred with God when he planned and executed the creation of the universe, …” (NAB notes 8,22-31).

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  jonathan dough

  One more:

  Thomas answered Jesus saying "My Lord and my God."

  Thomas was engaged in a direct conversation with Jesus, not God in heaven, when he uttered those words. He answered Jesus who replied to him in return and nothing in those verses remotely suggests Thomas was speaking to the heavenly Father or referring to Him.

  Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God.” (John 20:26-29 RSV)

  Third, calling out “My God” in astonishment would have amounted to taking God’s name in vain and blasphemy in violation of Exodus 20:7 and Leviticus 24:16, crimes punishable by death.

  Fourth, Thomas was fully cognizant of the many miracles Jesus performed, in addition to Christ’s implicit and explicit references to himself as God. It truly stretches credulity to think that Thomas thought of Jesus as nothing more or less than a resurrected man. Casting all doubt aside, Thomas knew that Jesus was his Lord and his God. His answer to Christ “forms a literary inclusion with the first verse of the gospel: “and the Word was God” (NAB notes John 20, 28).

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  jonathan dough

  Yes, there really is a mountain of evidence and this just scratches the surface.

  Highly significant is Thomas’ use of “Lord” and the manner in which “Lord” is tied directly to God. Here, Lord refers to God in the supreme sense because there can only be “one Lord” according to Paul at 1 Corinthians 8:6, 7 and Ephesians 4:5. Although Lord (Greek kurios) has a wide application and can apply to men as a title of honor, such a lower meaning of Lord was eventually superceded by the higher meaning after Christ’s resurrection, and this is the meaning employed by Doubting Thomas.

  (11) His purpose did not become clear to the disciples until after His resurrection, and the revelation of His Deity consequent thereon. Thomas, when he realized the significance of the presence of a mortal wound in the body of a living man, immediately joined with it the absolute title of Deity, saying, “my Lord and my God,” Jn 20:28. Thereafter, except in Acts 10:4 and Rev. 7:14, there is no record that kurios was ever again used by believers in addressing any save God and the Lord Jesus; cf Acts 2:47 with 4:29, 30.

  (12) How soon and how completely the lower meaning had been superseded is seen in Peter’s declaration in his first sermon after the resurrection, “God hath made Him - Lord,” Acts 2:36, and in the house of Cornelius, “He is Lord of all,” Acts 10:36, cf. Deut 10:14; Mt 11:25; Acts 17:24. (Strong and Vine’s, 147)

  “The full significance of this association of Jesus with God under the one appellation, “Lord,” is seen when it is remembered that these men belonged to the only monotheistic race in the world. To associate with the Creator one known to be a creature, however exalted, though possible to Pagan philosophers, was quite impossible to a Jew” (ibid., 147, 148 (16).

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  frankiespeakin

  Excellent point Design
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  frankiespeakin

  Jere,

  Everything God made reflectes His glory and fufilles their purpose and pleases God; except fallen angles and humans. God is in all and over all he made.

  I think your using special pleading here. If god made everything and god is everywhere then you can't exclude fallen angels and humans just because you feel like it.
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  frankiespeakin

  Jona,

  I think some of your argumentation, take away from god's glory because you use such childish logic and diminish his omnipresence.
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  designs

  frankiespeakin, jonathan-

  In the Western Church's theological writings it becomes obvious that what they hoped would clear things up about Jesus actually muddles the uniqueness they sought to define. Almost Hindu sounding, animate and inanimate things swimming inside a Cosmic divine substance. And of course the central issue that Jesus as the Word comes from Eternity and therefore is God to the reader says- hey! everything came through that route, there is no other way to get here....ie the Hindu claim that everything is God/Divine.
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  jonathan dough

  Still more:

  In accordance with the vast majority of translations, the inspired writer of Hebrews 1:8, 9 specifically referred to the Son as God. Chapter 1 is devoted to distinguishing Christ from angels and identifying Him as God the Son which should leave no doubt that Christ is not an angel as the Jehovah’s Witnesses preach.

  [B]ut as to the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Your kingdom; You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because this God, your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above your companions.” (Hebrews 1: 8, 9 Green’s Literal Translation)

  According to the Catholic New American Bible “[T]he application of the name “God” to the Son derives from the preexistence mentioned in vv 2-3;…” (NAB notes 1:8-12).

  …in these last days, he spoke to us through a Son,
  whom he made heir of all things
  and through whom he created the universe,
  who is the refulgence of his glory,
  the very imprint of his being,
  and who sustains all things by his mighty word.

  When he had accomplished purification from sins,
  he took his seat at the right hand of the Majesty on high, … (NAB)

  First, at verse 3 a literal translation says that Christ is “the express image of His essence” (Green’s Literal Translation; “imprint of His being” NAB). Here, “image” (Greek charaktar) denotes that the Son is “literally equal to God,” of whose essence he is the imprint. It is the fact of complete similarity which this Word stresses” (Strong and Vine’s, 269). Clearly, Christ could not have been created and most certainly was not an angel because either way He would not be literally equal to God, but much less.

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  jonathan dough

  Continued ....

  Secondly, verse 13 quotes Psalm 110:1 where Jehovah God is said to refer to Christ as Adonai (adonay) (Hebrew for Lord) which is a title used exclusively for God (Strong and Vine’s, 6) , an interpretation even the Jehovah’s Witnesses concede (Insight, 1008). Hebrews 1:13 reads:

  But to which of the angels did He ever say,
  “ Sit at my right hand
  until I place Your enemies as a
  footstool of Your feet”? (Green’s Literal Translation)

  This is a direct quote of Psalm 110:1, a psalm of David, which reads:

  A statement of Jehovah to my Lord (adonai):
  Sit at my right hand, until I place
  Your enemies as Your footstool. (Green’s Literal Translation)

  Adonai is identified with Interlinear Number 136 which cross-references to Strong and Vine’s entry for “adonai,” at page 6.

  
  
  

  Not only is the Son not an angel, but this supports the interpretation of verse 8 which refers to the Son as God.

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  jonathan dough

  Third, it is important to note that verses 10-12 also play a significant role in the interpretation of Hebrews 1:8 because that is an Old Testament passage directed to God Almighty but “redirected to Jesus” (NAB notes 1, 8-12). Of the Son, He said:

  And, “You, Lord, at the beginning founded the earth, and the heavens are works of your hands. They will vanish away; but You will continue; and they will all become old like a garment, and You shall fold them up like a covering, and they shall be changed. But You are the same and Your years shall not fail.” (Hebrews 1:10-12 Green’s Literal Translation)

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