Examining Scripture to see if Jesus was, and is, God.

by jonathan dough 204 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Acts 17:25-28

    25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Here's yet another reason why Jesus was, and is, God and not just a mere man and created angel as the JWs teach.

    There is only one Savior who grants eternal salvation, and both the divine Person of Christ and God are that Savior.

    God states at Isaiah 43:11 that “Besides me there is no savior.” Yet Jesus is also called our Savior at Titus 1:4, and again at Titus 3:6. Read together it is reasonable to conclude that since Jesus is a Christian’s savior, yet there is no savior besides God, then Jesus must be God. The Jehovah's Witnesses counter that just because a judge in Israel by the name of Othniel is also called savior (or deliverer) (Judges 3:9) that similarity does not make Othniel Jehovah (Reasoning, 413).

    Well, of course it doesn’t, but the Jehovah's Witnesses are making the same mistake by failing to ask “What kind of savior?” The unique savior of Isaiah 43:11 and Titus 1:4, 3:6 is a savior on a much grander scale, on an altogether higher spiritual and religious plane; a Savior who saves in supernatural ways unknown to men, who knows and predicts future events, (Isaiah 43:9), an only savior (Acts 4:10, 12) whose salvation is complete (Colossians 2:10), powerful (Jude 24, 25), authoritative (John 10:18) and universal (1 Timothy 4:10). This one-of-a-kind savior saves from wrath (Romans 5:9), sin (John 1:29) and death through the gift of eternal life (John 11:25, 26). Any parallels with Othniel are seriously misplaced. There is only one kind of “savior” at issue here, not secular saviors, deliverers, kings or judges who have made their mark on history.

    The Jehovah's Witnesses counter with Jude 25 and reason that God is a savior only through Jesus Christ (Reasoning, 413). Jude 25, however, is a doxology, a hymn or words of praise directed to God the savior through Jesus Christ:

    … to the only wise God, our Savior, be glory and majesty and might and authority, even now and forever, Amen. (Jude 25 Green’s Literal Translation)

    Jude is not saying that God is our only savior through Jesus as though he were some hollow tube. Christ offered up His life out of His own volition and he saves directly by Him, by His shed blood. Interestingly, a literal translation of Jude 25 makes no mention of Christ at all which lends credence to the argument that Jude 25 is a doxology directing praise to God, not a statement on Christ’s role as savior, as some type of conduit. Acts 4:12 makes it very clear that “…there is salvation in no one else… (RSV, Green’s Literal Translation, NKJV),” in Christ. Salvation in Christ and through Christ are not mutually exclusive terms.

    http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#25

  • jeremiahjs
    jeremiahjs

    1Cor.8:5,6 Mat4:10; 8:29 Mark10:18; 12:29 Only God is good Jesus said, Jesus was capable of sin, God's incapable of sin(Good){Romans1:25(creation=Jesus; One who created=Father God)}

    I Think God only has one face, (not three) He has been concealing from us. I was just saying it is the Fther you must render sacred servive to and worship as the one true God like Jesus told us to. Jesus is the Son of God making him not God. God was and he had a word(plan) then God made his first creation = Jesus; and then it was God, Jesus, and the word(and HS mabye). Then they made the word happen and now we all are here debating who God is and is not. It's written many times there is one God the Father, Jesus said it and almost all the books of the bible declare it. God doesn't have three heads, we are made in his image hence one head one face. God created Jesus out of God himself(it was just God and his words(plans), then much later us out of dust, Jesus and HS.

    When he said "my Lord and my God" he could of well been looking at Jesus when he said Lord, and looked up when he said and my God, thanking and praising God for beholding the Lord again, and if Jesus knewq this as his reasoning Jesus surly wouldn't have rebuked him.

    I do think worshiping any thing other than God the Father Yahweh Himself as GOD alone, is a form of false worship. When you worship something that was created (Son, creation) as the Father (Creator). You dont give the glory to the Father like Jesus did himself. I do belive false worship is safer for your salvation, because if one knows and understands the true word of God and falls short of what they learned, after commiting to Christ, then it's written they will recived greater judgment. For instance if you kill the sinner in yourself in this life for Christ, then that death pays for the wages of your sin while alive, so if you sin this could be against your immortal soul instaed of your mortal soul. If you don't understand what your commiting to, your death when you die cleans your slate, pays for your sins, so God can raise you pure, cleansed whith the blood of Jesus.

    Jesus is much more than a man or angel, he is the Son of God himself above everything - but not God, the Son of God, a medeator between us and God and everything's King, Lord, and Teacher. God made Jesus like God, now they are making a temple (us) out of God through Jesus (like them) for God's Holy Spirt to fill and dwell forever; then God's word and Kingdom will be fulfilled, finished, but just getting started for what God made us all for in the first place, - a growing loving family perfect forever. God gives everything to Jesus, and Jesus gives it all back to his Father and us as brothers n sisters to Jesus and children of God.

    But opinions are like farts everybodys smells different, truth is not as important as love anyway. Truth is wonderful, but dangerous to salvation in this life. Im sure God will reveal all His secrets when we and Him are ready to for that embracment. God bless you all with His love and Spirit and His Sons guidance and strenght, and their undeserved kindness, forever!

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Jona,

    Are you saying that divinity is in all things? Fecal matter? Satan's bowels?

    Divinty is in the eye of the beholder and Satan bowels is a good a place as any, even garbage on the street has a sacred quality to it if you look for it you can see god in it.

  • jeremiahjs
    jeremiahjs

    If God sends His Son to us as a savior then that makes God the true source of the savior. Jesus is our savior because the Father sent him to save us, making God the one true Savior.

  • jeremiahjs
    jeremiahjs

    Everything God made reflectes His glory and fufilles their purpose and pleases God; except fallen angles and humans. God is in all and over all he made.

  • designs
    designs

    Omnipresence, hypostatic union, and indivisibilty-

    This is where the symanitics of theology and science struggle. If as the theory goes God is omnipresent and indivisible one essence of God way on the other side of the cosmos and heaven should be the same quality and intensity as any other part of the Totality God fills. But language exists also in the Bible explaining that God blesses people, fills them and so on. So what is this trying to say. Does God concentrate his powers on certain objects. Can something be more of God and less God and still hold to the principle of indivisiblity.

    This is where some cultures developed the 'everything is god/divine' notion. They either accepted a nondiluted concept of the divine or perhaps had not developed the language to describe intensity, or it could be they felt it described how they wanted and should interact with nature..

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    another reason:

    When Thomas said "My Lord and my God," he used the exact words that David used at Psalm 35:23 with reference to God, writing, "Awake, be vigilant in my defense, in my cause, My God and my Lord," (RSV, NAB, KJV and Green's Literal Translation). "Lord" here is translated from the Hebrew adonai used exclusively of God. Thomas would never have used these same words when addressing the risen Christ if he were just a man. The Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation changes verse 23 to read in part, "My God, even Jehovah."

    http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-7.html#35

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    Yes, and another reason Jesus could not have been a created angel and was and is God.

    One of Christ’s disciples, Stephen, when stoned to death, cried out “Lord, Jesus, receive my spirit” (Acts 7:59). No doubt Stephen was familiar with Ecclesiastes 12:7 “…and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (RSV, Green’s Literal Translation). Stephen was not beseeching an angel to take back his spirit, but the Word who was, and is, God the Son, and who gave Stephen his spirit and to whom it would return.

    http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-7.html#35

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    And another: Jesus is the first and the last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Almighty.

    The heavenly resurrected Jesus is identified as Almighty God and the “First and the Last” because there can be only one “First and Last” and one “Alpha and Omega” and Jesus assumed both titles.

    In the Book of Revelation Jesus can be identified as the Almighty and the “Alpha and the Omega,” titles used to identify God. Even if the Jehovah's Witnesses were correct in stating that Jesus is never specifically called the Almighty, which they claim is a title reserved for God (Reasoning, 414), that title can readily be ascribed to Jesus by logically piecing together selected verses.

    For instance, both Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18 and God as the Alpha and Omega at Revelation 22:13 are referred to as “the First and the Last.” Therefore, because Jesus and the Almighty are both “the First and the Last,“ Jesus must be the Almighty who is the Alpha and Omega.

    Also, the Alpha and the Omega (God) of Revelation 1:8 is identified as the Almighty, and because Jesus is also the Alpha and the Omega, Jesus is the Almighty, a title identifying Jehovah (Yahweh) at Genesis 17:1. Jesus was, and is, God. The logical train of thought is illustrated by quoting the actual verses.

    a) Jesus is the First and the Last: “Fear not, I am the First and the Last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.” (Revelation 1:17, 18)

    b) The Alpha and the Omega (God) is also the First and the last: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:12, 13)

    c) Therefore, Jesus must also be the Alpha and Omega, God.

    d) The Alpha and the Omega is the Almighty: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

    e) Therefore, not only is Jesus the Alpha and Omega but also the Almighty, all powerful, omnipotent.

    http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#23

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