by jonathan dough 204 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
True. Look at the Didache. It just missed the Cannon. It was written as early as 120 to 150. There are many things in it that the Church does not believe
Indeed, and things in there that the church "adopted" such as Baptizim that is not by full immersion.
You should worship the Creator not a creation.
Jere,
You should worship the Creator not a creation.
So will God spank us if we worship Jesus mistaking him for god?
You should worship the Creator not a creation.
Yes, amen!
Revelation 5:4-5 I wept and wept and wept that no one was found able to open the scroll, able to read it. One of the Elders said, "Don't weep. Look—the Lion from Tribe Judah, the Root of David's Tree, has conquered. He can open the scroll, can rip through the seven seals."
6 -10 So I looked, and there, surrounded by Throne, Animals, and Elders, was a Lamb, slaughtered but standing tall. Seven horns he had, and seven eyes, the Seven Spirits of God sent into all the earth. He came to the One Seated on the Throne and took the scroll from hisright hand. The moment he took the scroll, the Four Animals and Twenty-four Elders fell down and worshiped the Lamb. Each had a harp and each had a bowl, a gold bowl filled with incense, the prayers of God's holy people. And they sang a new song:
Worthy! Take the scroll, open its seals.
Slain! Paying in blood, you bought men and women,
Bought them back from all over the earth,
Bought them back for God.
Then you made them a Kingdom, Priests for our God,
Priest-kings to rule over the earth.
11 -14 I looked again. I heard a company of Angels around the Throne, the Animals, and the Elders—ten thousand times ten thousand their number, thousand after thousand after thousand in full song:
The slain Lamb is worthy!
Take the power, the wealth, the wisdom, the strength!
Take the honor, the glory, the blessing! Then I heard every creature in Heaven and earth, in underworld and sea, join in, all voices in all places, singing:
To the One on the Throne! To the Lamb!
The blessing, the honor, the glory, the strength,
For age after age after age. The Four Animals called out, "Oh, Yes!" The Elders fell to their knees and worshiped. MSG
Sylvia
God will judge how it's written, i never read of God spanking, just destroying, and only one sin cannot be forgivin, and God ordains from all congregations.
But the truth will set you free and enhance your relationship with God and Christ.
Now the blanket statement that you made that the divine name is I AM is not supported by any text anywhere in scripture. Your readers should be aware of this so that they can decide for themselves what to teach others.
The entire point of this thread is to make just such an examination, each side bringing their arguments to the table. With respect to the I AM, 2 billion Christians couldn't disagree with you more.
Jesus Christ’s express declarations that he was, and is, God, are found at John 8:24, 28, 58, and John 13:19. These are the famous I AM statements where Christ not only revealed God’s name I AM (John 17:6, 26) but stressed His own divinity. Christ also made God’s name manifest throughout his ministry in a larger sense beyond its common usage, for onama as a noun stands “for all that a “name” implies of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence etc.., of everything that the name covers,” (Strong and Vine’s, 179).
The significance of the I AM statements can only be understood in the context of Exodus 3:13-15 where God made his name and what it signifies known to Moses during the incident of the burning bush where Moses was called upon to help lead the Israelites out of Egypt.
And Moses said to God, Behold, I shall come to the sons of Israel and say to them, The God of your fathers has sent me to you; and they will say to me, What is His name? What shall I say to them? And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and he said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM sent me to you. And God said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, Jehovah the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is my title from generation to generation. (Exodus 3:13-15 Green’s Literal Translation)
Thus, God said His name is I AM THAT (or WHO) I AM (’Ehyeh -’Asher -’Ehyeh), or the shortened I AM. I AM THAT I AM is one of the most debated phrases with respect to the Hebrew verb hayah. A distinct minority of interpretations render it I-Will-Be-That-I-Will-Be, (R. Alter, The Five Books of Moses: a Translation with Commentary [New York, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2004], 321) (Books of Moses).
The Jehovah's Witnesses prefer, “I shall prove to be who I shall prove to be,” arguing that hayah “means ‘become,’ or ‘prove to be.’” They claim that the reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others (Insight, 12). But this is incorrect, at most a half truth.
Even scholars who prefer this minority view concede that “the common rendering of “I-AM-THAT-I-AM” cannot be excluded,” (Alter, Books of Moses, 321). Furthermore, “Since the tense system of Biblical Hebrew by no means corresponds to that of modern English, it is also perfectly possible to construe this as “I AM HE WHO ENDURES” (ibid.).
I AM THAT I AM without a doubt represents the majority view, the traditional common rendering, and hayah in this context means &a
The I AM argument continued, Part II
The overall context of Jesus’ claim to be the I AM was His “identity.” In verses 25 and 53 the Jews ask Jesus outright “Who are you,” and “Whom do you make yourself?” And at verse 48 they accuse him of being a Samaritan. John 8:12-59 chronicles a heated debate between Jesus, the Pharisees and other Jews, the central issue being the true identity of Christ, but it should be noted that identity involves more than a name or label. Personal characteristics such as origin, destination, occupation or purpose, associations and age, among other things, combine to identify who a person is, and it was these kinds of attributes the Pharisees and other Jews were prying into and how Jesus responded.
Then the Jews answered and said to Him, Do we not say well that you are a Samaritan, and have a demon? Jesus answered, I do not have a demon, but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. “But I do not seek my glory; there is One who seeks and judges. Truly, truly, I say to you, If anyone keeps my word, he will never ever see death.
Then the Jews said to Him, Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died, and the prophets, and you say, If anyone keeps My word, he will never ever taste of death. Are you greater than our father Abraham who died? And the prophets died! Whom do you make yourself? Jesus answered, If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies me, whom you say is your God. And you have not known Him; but I know Him, and if I say I do not know Him, I shall be like you, a liar. But I know Him, and I keep His word. Your father Abraham leaped for joy that he should see My day, and he saw, and rejoiced. Then the Jews said to Him, You do not yet have fifty years, and have you seen Abraham?
Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM. Then they took up stones that they might throw them on Him. But Jesus was hidden, and went forth out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. (John 8:48-59. Green’s Literal Translation)
Previously at verse 19 Jesus stated that the Jews did not know Him. At verse 12 he identifies himself metaphorically as “the Light of the world.” He tried to explain his origin, having come from heaven above to where he was returning (verse 23) and he stated as one of his purposes conveying to the world what he had heard from the Father (verse 26). He also alluded to his age, that he was preexistent (verse 56). It seems evident, then, that the controversy centered around who Jesus was, and it was in response to that series of inquires that he told them that he was the I AM, understood by the Jews as Yahweh’s own self-designation (NAB notes 8, 24-28).
The Jehovah's Witnesses take an extremely narrow view and seem to think that Jesus was only referring to his preexistence at John 8:58, and not his identity, going so far as to change the Bible to read “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been” (NWT). But the problem there, of course, is that the Bible doesn’t say that or come remotely close. Jesus said “I AM,” nothing more (Green‘
RE: The "I AM" of John 8:58
In Greek it is indeed, ego eimi, Ego menaing I, me or my and eimi meaning to be, to exist, to happen, to be present.
now, the tense in John 8:68 is unique.
Its use in John 18:5-6 also hints at more by the reaction to Jesus's words.
Perhaps...
I AM THAT I AM without a doubt represents the majority view, the traditional common rendering, and hayah in this context means “to exist,” “to be.” “The verb makes a strong statement about the being or presence of a person or thing” (Strong and Vine’s, 68 (1a)). “Ex 3:14 is more than a simple statement of identity: “I am that I am”… is a declaration of divine control of all things (cf Hos 1:9) (ibid., 68). Remember, Jesus said “All power and authority has been given to me” (Matthew 28:18).
The precise meaning of the divine name Yahweh, which stems from hayah, is likewise much debated, (ibid., 109). Strong and Vine’s defines Yhovah (Yahweh) as “(the) self-Existent or Eternal,” and illustrates how God explained the meaning of “I AM WHO I AM.”
here is another snippet that got cut off by the new shrinkage policy.
