Planted a seed today... Update on de-program of my 16 year old son (page 5)

bluecanary

I love hearing about these anecdotes with your kids. Please continue to keep us informed.

Scarred for life

Yes, Tammy is right. You are building a great relationship. It will last forever.

Aussie Oz

23 may 2010

HAD THE MOST AMAZING TALK WITH MY KIDS TODAY! This a long post!

I decided it was time to talk about baptism, disfellowshipping and shunning. Having already established a few weeks ago that i keep up to date with the watchtower via the official website i started by asking what they knew about me. About my time as a JW. The answer was 'not much'. So i asked if they were aware that they disfellowshipped me, which they were aware of.

I commented that i notice the latest issues of watchtower study have been talking about young people taking the step of dedication and baptism and asked what they think would happen if they got baptised... answer 'we would not be allowed to see you anymore'.

I then asked how they felt about this...'that would suck'.

I then used the example of being in a Brand car club and how stupid and hurtful it would be to be not only kicked out for buying another brand which is fine for breaking the rules but how much worse it would be if on top of that they then refused to ever talk to you again. This was a good and effective illustration for them.

I asked my son was considering baptism and the answer was 'no'. I said that the book to study in preperation missed out one very important teaching, While it talked about disfellowshipping it did not talk about shunning. So essentialy, the subject may not even be talked about until after baptism. I asked if they were aware of what was said at baptism... that the bible says to baptise in the name of the father, son and holy spirit. Did they know what the actual words were at the assembly talks? No, they did not. I suggested that next assembly when they have the baptism talk to listen to the end bit where they stand up and they will hear this; in the name of the father, son and spirit directed organization.

I asked what they thought that meant. Not really.. i explained that what it basically meant was that they were baptised to serve an organization more than god.

A LIGHT CAME ON MY 13 YR OLD GIRLS HEAD! 'so its like signing a contract with fine print?" I answered yes, in fact it can be so fine that some times the fine print can be so small that you cant read it.

We then talked about such ideas as why are they considered old enough to make this whole life course chioce when society recognizes that they are not old enough to drive, drink alcohol, or get married yet. That scientist recognize that the brain has not yet finished growing until sometime around the mid twenties yet they could be considered to be mature enough to make this life chioce at ages far younger than are even now.

I asked if they knew how old Jesus was when he got baptised... 'no, dont know' When i said 30 they were surprised... i asked why did he not do it when he was say, 15? After all, he knew he was gods son, why did he wait? I eplained tht he was not considered a man till then, not mature enough to make this choice till then.

We then talked about how hard it can be to leave if you change your mind, about doing something wrong leading to disfellowshipping if they were not sorry, to what it meant if they D/A themselves. That even if they just stopped going that oneday someone might come looking to see if they were doing anything wrong ON WENT A LIGHT IN MY SONS HEAD. A look that said i know what you mean... i've seen it sort of look.

I explained how that in 1947, a loooong time ago, the watchtower told the catholic church off for excomuncation but 5 years later adopted the practice them selves. That the bible says to quit mixing with ...extortioners, drunkeds, greedy people etc, did they see that in me? In anyone they know that is not a JW? 'no,no' I explained that the bible has some good guidelines to live a good life but that other books and teachings did the same.

Yesterday i took them to see their aunt who never got baptised and used her as an example of another alternative to being baptised, that she was in a good happy life, married with babies, a hard worker and she didnt do drugs or smoke either. That being a JW was not the only way to have a good life.

I asked if they believed everything they were being taught, both answered 'no.'

my son volunteeered that he did not believe worldly people were all bad and that shunning was right. I asked why...' i have seen enough to know, and i talk to friends that are disfellowshipped when i see them.'

We talked about the importance of proving everything they are taught to themselves, To NEVER beleive what mum, the watchtower or even I told them without proving it to themselves. Research research research! Use the library, use the internet. You want to know what the baptists are up to? google it! You can google JW and learn lots too. Dont be like me who was so isolated that i just beleived every thing i was told...

I finished off by asking them to ask me questions anytime about my time as a witness, my last 12 years years, what i believe etc.

It took a while and we covered a lot. I think not too much as it was all tied together in subject. And i am sure i have forgotten some stuff. But the HUGE thing was that through it all, i could really see that they understood exactly what i was talking about. The lights were on!

I finished thinking that perhaps my 13 yr old girl was more switched on and a deep thinker than i thought.

Later on, with my wife unaware that we had had this talk today, while in the car taking them home we joked about an old church we saw on the way. That we should start our own religion! Ha ha, a great way to make money! All the tithing and donations. My daughter gave her a look that she saw as 'i know exactly what you mean!' My wife spoke a little about the time she was dating a mormon and how some 18 yr old 'elder' tried to tell her how to live her life... again, a knowing look. Surprised the wife too.

All up, i think it went well. neither off them had discomfort, infact, the opposite. They really paid attention, far more than in other talks. Perhaps i should have had a bunch of printouts and quotes from the WT publications. But i sort of had to seize the moment. I may well get the paper proof side of it lined up for another time though.

I tried to not tell them what was right or wrong and tried to get them to think. Indeed, this was also covered. About how the biggest gift i could give them as a father was the getting them to be thinkers. Allways think for themselves.

oz

edit: i also asked permission to discuss other things i might read in the watchtower as i was very interested in the things they were learning... that i may want to know what they think of some things. permission granted, not a problem.

cantleave

Nice one Aussie, I found this recounting of the conversation heartening. I am so glad we are well out this since our kids are not going through the indoctrination process.

DaCheech

i'm sure your calm resoning is better than the tantrum mom's gonna have

Black Sheep

Nice one Oz.

You don't need the bits of paper. You're doing fine without them. Save them for if someone accuses you of dishonesty, or makes spurious claims about WT teachings. Maybe pull one out if you are bored, it's raining, and you have nothing else to talk about. Make it a real rip-snorter, then get out the Carcassonne.

I just hope that the kids don't push their Mum's psycho button as soon as they get home.

Cheers

Chris

Gayle

Aussie,,I think your kids are really going to thank you big time some day,,about releasing them from the bonds of the WT. Lucky kids to be allowed to see the options.

Scarred for life

Aussie, I agree with Gayle. Your kids are going to thank you and you will have a close relationship with them the rest of your lives. Outstanding!

Aussie Oz

Thanks guys! I dont think they tell their mum much at all.

I am finding it very intersting that all the things they do and know that is 'worldly' has come from friends and the internet and not from me!

I just remembered another gem from the chat on saturday, we got talking about living ones authentic life... my daughter said 'that means living as who you really are on the inside'.

It appears thay are both able to think for themselves which bodes well i think. I only hope that the mothers and the WT guilt trips have little effect.

cheers

oz

hemp lover

Nicely done. Thanks for the update.

Planted a seed today... Update on de-program of my 16 year old son

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