Come all Ye' Faithful... and tell us how God has answered

by AK - Jeff 102 Replies latest jw friends

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    Are we becoming WT apologists again? Is being a JW not clearly a misplaced faith?

    No, not at all Chalam. But someone who is trying to sincerely please God prays with expectation of a 'hearer'. You cannot prove your faith is any truer than Jw's, now can you? You like to come on these threads proclaiming how you have it 'right', you 'understand' the 'correct' application of scripture, you are now in a position that baby Jesus likes. Then you spout some, let's see what does your holy book call it? Oh yes - mock humility. After slamming me for having been a Jw at the time I uttered my prayers, you then downplay yourself as insignificant. You feel no personal true humility, sir. You feel just the opposite. You are an expert in understanding how to approach God properly, so you say. Yet your prayers go unanswered too.

    In the end, your faith is 100% unverifiable eschatology. Just like every other faith. It is all guesswork. Personal interpretation of scripture that has been translated and retranslated and translated again. All done by men with hidden or open agendas.

    I am no Jw apologist. I hate that religion. I hate yours also. It is just another facet of the same flawed glass pretending to be a diamond.

    Being Jw is a misplaced faith as you say. SO are all the rest perhaps.

    By your statement and that of your buddy, Perry, then, not a single prayer of a Jw can ever be answered? Yet, I am sure that equal number of self-righteous Jws will assure you their prayers are being answered.

    You and your 'friends of faith' come on here and 'apologize' for God. You excuse God's inexcusable lack of action toward the plight of humanity. You excuse His lack of answers to prayer. You excuse the timetable for any action toward man's true salvation. You excuse the Bible and it's inaccuracies as insignificant. You do so by attempting to condemn those of us willing to ask the hard questions, the only questions that really matter. For when you take that final breath, you don't have any idea what is on the other side. You don't know if Jesus will greet you or the Devil. You can't promise that it isn't just darkness forever.

    You lay open your insecurity with your apologies. You find yourself important because you think your God will 'save' you. You elevate yourself in the same way that we all did as Jw's when we looked upon other religions.

    The difference in you and I is simple: I walked away and saw that all the others were just like the one I left. You went and found another place that filled you up with more of the same kool-aid, new flavor.

    You don't know any better than I the answers. That is what I am trying to find. All this talk of whether my prayers could be answered because I had an 'inferior faith' is unadulterated bullshit. Another red herring thrown to excuse your God from action.

    Oh, piss on it. I'm going to bed.

    Jeff

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Before I went to bed I watched the video, whereami.

    Perfect. Thank you.

    Jeff

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Jeff,

    My apologies if I caused any offence. It was not your fault the WT lied to you or the havoc it has wreaked.

    Where you go from here is up to you. Ultimately, I see only one solution. I say that through my own experience.

    Hopefully you have read my story? I was bitter, and empty for 20 years. I know the lasting peace and real joy that the Saviour brings.

    Christians and JWs are the difference between day and night. That is why we celebrate the arrival of our Saviour and JWs don't.

    So in the words of the title of this thread :)

    O come, all ye faithful,
    Joyful and triumphant,
    O come ye, O come ye to Bethlehem;
    Come and behold him,
    Born the King of angels;
    O come, let us adore him,
    O come, let us adore him,
    O Come, let us adore him, Christ the Lord.

    God of God,
    Light of Light,
    Lo! He abhors not the Virgin's womb:
    Very God,
    Begotten, not created; Refrain

    Sing, choirs of angels,
    Sing in exultation,
    Sing, all ye citizens of heaven above;
    Glory to God
    In the highest; Refrain

    See how the shepherds,
    Summoned to his cradle,
    Leaving their flocks, draw nigh to gaze;
    We too will thither
    Bend our joyful footsteps; Refrain

    Child, for us sinners
    Poor and in the manger,
    We would embrace thee, with love and awe;
    Who would not live thee,
    Loving us so dearly? Refrain

    Yea, Lord, we greet thee,
    Born this happy morning;
    Jesus, to thee be glory given;
    Word of the Father,
    Now in flesh appearing; Refrain

    Blessings,

    Stephen

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Jeff, I am a little late in the game on this one. Been busy today wrapping up some loose ends on my Christmas shopping. Gave my sister in law and her daughter a gift and allowed my daughter to unwrap hers today as we are heading to my mom's house tomorrow. My dub wife even took snap shots with her 'yearly gift' that I got her, nice.

    Anyway, on to your topic. I remember when I first was saved, got baptized, and started attending a fundy church nearly 20 years ago. The one thing I always wanted (even before I became a Christian) was a steady girlfriend and future wife and no matter what I did, I never had any luck in the dating department. When I did get someone interested in me, it was always too short. I can't say for certain that I prayed to God for this but I certainly was hoping at the time that God will be pleased with my 'work' and grant me my fondest wish. Alas, He didn't and to add insult to injury, it seemed like the ones who were 'lucky' in that department were the people who acted and conducted themselves in a manner that showed me that they did not deserve it. Of course, this is all silly now but try telling that to a young 20 year old nice guy who never had a girlfriend before in his life and couldn't understand why.

    Being in that church, I saw some pretty bad hypocrisy and teachings that at times made no sense. These people were certainly of the 'God is a republican' and the 'I'll only read a KJV Bible' department. I stayed with them for about two years, well I stayed in that denomination but switched churches three times within the time period. Finally, I was fed up with them and left, something about the whole idea that no matter how many times I attended church, went out soul winning (a fundy version of FS except that we take only the Bible and don't count our time), studied my Bible (which honestly, I did mostly in church), prayed, or tried to learn more about God I wasn't doing enough. I would constantly be barraged with new 'rules' that I had to follow such as thou shalt not dance, teach Santa Claus to little children, watch the Smurfs, listen to rock music (even Christian rock), wear jeans in church (if you are a lady), and we prefer you to wear suits. You must be in church every Sunday morning AND Sunday night as well as Wednesday night and don't you dare let the superbowl stop you from attending church. Watch out for cyberporn on the Internet, Captain Planet is the Devil because they are both made of earth, wind, fire, water, and heart. Santa is also the devil as the letters of his name can be rearranged to spell Satan. Etc, etc, etc.. I wanted to kill myself a few times as I thought I would never be good enough to get any answers to my prayers and I felt like the devil was everywhere always out to get me. SOUND FAMILIAR???

    Needless to say, I found myself in a state to where I felt that I was so worthless that I nearly took my own life. I wised up immediately after I took a whole bottle of Inderal pills and the doctors were able to pump out my stomach and lace if with charcoal to prevent absorbtion. I was told that if I had attempted this about a year earlier, I would've been admitted to a psych ward. Instead, I just needed to see a counselor which I did and he released me after one session.

    I turned my life around, went to college and started accomplishing things. Feeling more confident, I finally got that girlfriend and I was doing it all WITHOUT GOD'S HELP. I began to believe that I did not need Him anymore and indeed I was making strides in my life (getting my Associate's degree and landing a good job). But about four years later, my relationship went sour and we split up, the job turned out to be not exactly what I was hoping for and I realized that it was going to take years to complete my Bachelor's degree. Feeling kind of lost and not sure where to turn, I went and made friends with a group of Christians at the college I was attending. Boy were they different than that group of fundamentalist I used to associate with. They were friendly, tolerant, and overall a loving group of individuals. Not perfect in any sense and at times even doing things that were obviously hypocritical but noone really judged and instead encouraged one another in a loving and positive way. Christians like these are the main reason why I believe in God still today in spite of the arguments that suggest that it is all a ruse designed to give us false hope and a moral compass.

    Concerning answered prayers, I can say that I personally feel like He answers my prayers as I have witnessed events that occur that seems like it can only be God working in my life. Could it all be just coincidence or me subconciously working out my own problems or me seeing answers in events because I want to, perhaps. I've listened to motivational speakers like Earl Nightingale and Tony Robbins back before I started going to church and again after I finished college and they too have some very powerful messages. Earl Nightingale sums everything up in a few basic rules such as success being the progressive realization of a worthy ideal or goal, luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity, and all things work for those who work within natures laws, the laws of cause and effect. Tony Robbins gave a powerful speach about the power of beliefs and how they can be limiting our potential if we believe that our abilities are limited or how our life can be almost magical if we believe in magic. Personally, the year I was studying Spanish in college, I could not help but to see a sudden increase in the number of people who were into Spanish. I was maintaining a penpal website at the time and I noticed an increase in number of individuals who were submitting their entries in part or in whole in Spanish. Coincidence or is there something out there that is at work or is it something inside of us?

    It's obvious that you no longer believe in the Christian God of the Bible and by extension in prayer to this God. No Christian is going to convince you that belief in God is the answer because you yourself choose to no longer believe in it. So my question is, what do you believe in? If you tell me that you believe in nothing then I will tell you to answer me again because no one 'believes in nothing.' You may beleive in fate, karma, or simply the random forces of blind chance but you believe in something, you just may not be sure what it is at the moment but ultimately you will believe in something and you will find that when you discover what it is, it will be something you've known all along. Sure, logically it will just seem like that it is simply all in your mind but does it really matter? There is so much about the universe and the space time continuum that we don't know about. How are we to know for certain that our minds aren't interacting with the universe in some way that we cannot explain? But even if it isn't true, I would rather believe that maybe there is some unseen force acting in our lives for good. What's the alternative? That's there's nothing we can do or nothing greater than ourselves? Not acceptable in my book.

    May God bless you Jeff as you search for the answers that you seek and may God watch over you and protect you as you do what you can to take care of those little ones and cope with the pain caused by the choices that your daughter made. Merry Christmas.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Nice and kind sentiments, gary.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Thank you Gary. Much appreciated.

    Thank you also Chalaam, in the spirit of the post you made. Merry Christmas to you also.

    Jeff

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    I guess Jeff doesn't believe me. Oh well.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Jeff,

    I know you got a testy with what Perry said, and I agree with you and you also got taken aback by what Chalam said, but I mentioned this in another thrread, remember?

    Fundamentalists and extermists ( and I am NOT calling Chalam that, but Perry does SEEM to be a fundamentalist) do have the answers for your questions, you just probably will not like them.

    See, it us moderates that view these questions as the most painful to answer, simple because we don't view God as "black n white".

    All life is suffering, the Budhha had that right and the way to avoid suffering is detachment in Buddhsism, in the Tao it is accepteance of how life is, we must "like the willow, give with the storm, not fight it", butin Christianity the answer is love.

  • undercover
    undercover
    Fundamentalists and extermists ... do have the answers for your questions, you just probably will not like them.

    Let's rephrase that...

    Fundies and extremists think they have all the answers and have no problem spouting their opinion based on faith as fact. Any logical, critical thinking person is not going to like their answers.

  • designs
    designs

    The trees I planted in my youth are now 100' tall.

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