by leavingwt 116 Replies latest jw friends
These are some of the points that I reviewed, upon leaving the JWs. The example of Cornelius seems clear cut, to me. Thank you for your comments.
Cornelius is treated very strangely by the Witness literature. Everything I have read about him in the WT insists that he left military service BEFORE he became a christian, but this is NOT what the NT account strictly says.
I guess they just wanted to edit it to fit their own particular political view.
There didn't seem to be anything wrong with Cornelius serving in the military.
There didn't seem to be anything wrong with Cornelius serving in the military.
Wonder what Cornelius position was when told to percecute Christians or un-Christ like treat Jews?
As I said, I'm not a Christian, have nothing against military service and would probably kill you if you forced me too, but any "Christians" who get involved in or support the atrocities of war are only deluding themselves.
Think About It
Think About It - sorry, (on Cornelius) - that is purely unknowable speculation.
You seem to be (really) anti-military, anti-war. Fine - that is your personal decision.
But the point of the thread is that the actual NT as available today does NOT specifically outlaw military service or even hint that it is wrong.
If it were so wrong, why didn't the account of Cornelius point that out clearly?
As I said, I'm not a Christian, have nothing against military service and would probably kill you if you forced me too, but any "Christians" who get involved in or support the atrocities of war are only deluding themselves.
JWoods......what part of my personal decision listed above did you not understand? What my personal decision or beliefs are (which I clearly stated) and what the teachings of the bible and Christ are......are 2 different things. If you think I'm going to just agree that "yeah Christians can be in the military and no matter what happens, have no judgement repercussions from God", then it ain't going to happen.
A case could possibly be made that a Christian could possibly be in the military, but doubtful that a Christian could at all times avoid duty that would compromise Christian teachings.
Think About It
Whatever, Think About It.
The point of the thread was (in general) "Is Military Service Wrong (for Christians)?"
In general, there is no prohibition against military service in the christian scriptures such as we have them today.
There is not really any specific prohibition against what might be called "war crimes" by some -
Again, it is all up to personal moral decision. Groups like the WTS want to remove that personal decision from you and make it their own decision.
When it comes to military service during a conflict, it is up to the individual to determine if the cause is just. In a given situation, some will think so, and some will not. Ultimately, it is up to our own conscience. Whether or not a cause is just, war involves the use of lethal force.
BTS
Cornelius is treated very strangely by the Witness literature. Everything I have read about him in the WT insists that he left military service BEFORE he became a christian, but this is NOT what the NT account strictly says
That is just one WT error about Cornelius (may you all have peace... and dear JMalik is correct regarding Cornelius being on active duty). The other is that he was a non-Israelite (i.e., of the nations and thus a Gentile, but not of Israel). The TRUTH is that Cornelius was, in fact, the FIRST non-Jew Israelite to be taken into the Body of Christ. He was from the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel... which is what the Samaritans were! Remembre the woman at the well, the SAMARITAN woman? Who said to my Lord, "OUR forefathers (meaning hers AND his) used to worship in this mountain, but YOU people (meaning the JEWS) say we must worship at the temple in Jerusalem."
The 2-tribe kingdom of Judah (the Jews) worshipped in Jerusalem. The 10-tribe kingdom of Israel (the Samaritans) worshipped in the mountains at the site formerly known as "Bethel."
That is why my Lord said to his disciples, "You will be witnesses of me in all Judea AND SAMARIA... and to the distant parts of the earth." Because the children of Israel, Jews AND Samaritans... were to be called first, as "firstfruits."
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
I think that a lot of the eventual Witness distaste for anything military came from the Rutherford & Cohorts imprisonment. Rutherford was in fact quite active politically - and ended up getting charged with sedition in the WW1 era for his outspoken condemnation of U.S. involvement in WW1.
I personally think this was an outgrowth of the twisted end-time dates as much as for any moralistic hatred of war or love of peace. Later eras of WT writers had to come up with scriptural "cover" for their anti-war (and tellingly - anti-government) agenda. This thread again reveals how very little to no scriptural support of the WT ideas on the military there actually are.
The account of Cornelius is logically a very good argument AGAINST the WT policy.
You highlight the fact that not every situation is the same. So, do you agree with a blanket condemnation of combat military service for Christians?
No
How honestly is the combat Xian soldier any different than Xian police officer? Sure the officer has a more peaceful territory and might have broader peaceful options in subduing a threat but ultimately they have the same authority and same duty which is to make sure things are safe.
How is tthe man in a defense situation doing anything that a good father and husband wouldn't do to protect his own! How would it sound if a man allowed an intruder to harm his wife and children under the arguement of turning the other cheek? It would seem really ridiculous! Being slapped on the cheek is an act of insult or humiliation not imminent danger of full bodily harm or death!
This said a Xian combat soldier would hopefully be mindful of his responsibilities as a Xian and execute his orders without becoming frenzied or blood thirsty! Further a Xian would probably discern the greater damage to the enemy camp by wounding versus killing. Live bodies require attention and resources while the dead often times become birdfood on the battlefield. I also know many men who are or have been at the front lines discern fully that neither he nor the enemy really want to be their on the field versus at home with family. Each have a cause to further, it isn't personal. And for many who the US would label an 'enemy' they are just poor schmucks who are there out of required national enlistment or because his leader who wasn't democratically elected by him or anyone else is commanding him into combat.......that said just because a man is in combat doesn't mean he has to do his best if he feels the fight is immoral..... people can intentionally miss their targets.
Now that said all Xian men are not the same so some will have a better talent for being able to handle himself than another.
The truth is I never think about 'greater' defense because I live in a paternal society in which my forefathers have set about structures to keep us women folk protected (whether that be in a tribe, nation, state, county, city, or congregation)........
