For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant... (page 2)

cameo-d

tec: "because Moses commanded that all boys had to be circumcised on the eighth day of his birth.."

Tec, are you sure about that? I don't think Moses made any such commandment. Do you know about the circumcision of Moses son?

Gladiator - I'm definitely not trying to discredit the OT with the NT. But even some of the OT prophets admonish the Israelites for their lack of mercy, hypocrisy, and empty rites. I just think the OT can be best understood with the NT in mind. And I think Jesus explains why he didn't come 4000 years ago when he says, "Jerusalem, how I have longed to gather your children together... but you were not willing." Also, the law of love of God and neighbor was OT. See 2John 5. I also agree that the words of Jesus and the words of Jehovah are the same, but Jesus is the Word of God... so if something is in conflict with what he said, then I think it was misunderstood.

On a side note... I'm more than happy to debate atheism vs. theism with you anytime. I don't think I can change your views, any more than you can change mine, but a friendly debate always keeps the mind sharp :)

Outlaw - Most people don't mind Jesus. Many people love him. Even Ghandi said he didn't mind our Jesus... just not the christians failing to live up to their own beliefs.

thetrueone

Oh but Tec your not telling the whole story about the god of the Israelites, commonly known today as Jehovah.

This web site goes into great detail of all what you missed www.evilbible.com a clickable link

tec

Cameo-d - I think I remember a law written in the OT about circumcising a boy on the eighth day... though I'd have to search for it. But Jesus is the one who said that entire line to the jews, so at the very least, they believed that Moses gave them that law. And no, I don't remember the story on the circumcision of Moses son.

cantleave

Doesn't explain the genocide of the people of canaan. Such a loving God.

THE GLADIATOR

tec - thank you for your reply but statements like these do not inspire confidence in your belief system:

I also agree that the words of Jesus and the words of Jehovah are the same, but Jesus is the Word of God... so if something is in conflict with what he said, then I think it was misunderstood.

I do not claim to be 'an atheist.' I just think that if there is god he would have come up with more sensible book than the bible. As a gladiator I have over 300 Greek & Roman gods. Whether I 'believe' in them in another matter.

God as explained in various guises in the bible is only one of many, many attempts to understand the meaning of our existence. A Christian is someone who claims to have arrived at an answer they are sure enough of to put faith in their conclusion. I have not arrived at such a place.

I do not wear a lable that says atheist because that would say I have arrived. I have no need to wear a lable unless I arrive at a conclusion and wish to publicly declare a faith in something that I believe. Only then can I nail my colours to the mask, or in your case cross.

tec

Sorry Gladiator. Didn't mean to label you with anything. I sometimes forget that while people might not believe in the bible, they can still have faith/spirituality... in Christianity or elsewhere... or they can be searching for their own conclusion, as you say.

Maybe I should clarify my statement... but I believe that if something is in conflict with what Jesus said, then I think it was misunderstood or misapplied by whoever was listening and wrote it down. Possibly even translated wrong; or possibly we just do not understand it, or I do not understand it. But Jesus said that he and his father were one (I take that spiritually/ one in mind and heart) and therefore, whatever loving attributes that Jesus has, his father has them also.

I put my faith in Jesus; not in anything that I may have personally concluded. My understandings grow and change as I do... and sometimes they also take a step back as I make mistakes. But I do believe in Jesus. Even if he was not the Messiah, I would believe in Jesus for the love and compassion and humility that he taught, and the example that he led. I would still try my best to follow that example. And since I believe in him, since I both trust and love him... and HE loved his Father... then his Father must be someone worthy of that love.

BTW everyone, I'm a little rusty on my chapters and verses in the OT. So even though I believe Jesus teachings take precedence over the OT, even what he taught about his Father, could you please point me to the general area of the war or genocide or atrocity that you're referring to when you reference the OT?

Also, its 2:30 am here, and I've got to get up with the kids in a handful of hours. Thanks for everyone who is responding. I'll be back in the am... the much later am, that is:)

Tammy

Broken Promises

The circumcision commandment was given to Abraham, not Moses.

cameo-d

Broken Promises: "The circumcision commandment was given to Abraham, not Moses."

tec: "But Jesus is the one who said that entire line to the jews, so at the very least, they believed that Moses gave them that law."

You really need to get your facts straight. It's rather silly to think you know the minds of "that entire line of jews" and that you claim "they believed that Moses gave them that law." Uh, no they did not. My point is that if you don't do some fact finding before you post, you are not credable.

OnTheWayOut

So the God of the OT and His laws were wonderful. It's those damn people that mucked it up.

Sounds like WT's excuse for failed prophecies like 1975. "We didn't say it the way you members misunderstood it."

But as brought out, Doesn't explain the genocide of the people of canaan. Such a loving God.

Did the people misunderstand the orders to rape and plunder? I think God was mad that they didn't go far enough.

For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...

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