If perhaps the old testament God has simply been neglectful and not implimented certain laws because he knew that the people were too hard hearted to listen, then maybe I could understand a little better. But when God actively commands such things as mass murder including non-virgin woman and children as well rape (or at the very least, forced marrage) (Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Isaiah 13:15-18, and many more), there I am unconvinced.
What you're saying is basically comparible to there being a horrible, brutal child (the Israelites) and his parents (God) being unable to control him properly. Now, it's one thing for those parents to let their child run amuck and do whatever he pleases, but how would you feel if the parents then told that child "Go over there and punch that other little boy in the face!" or gave him a lighter and told him to set people's houses on fire? Who would be the truly evil one in that situation? Because that's pretty much the situation between God and the Israelites. The Israelites may have been brutal, but God was the one actually commanding them to do many of these awful things.
And then there's the killings that God carries out on his own, particularly the murder of innocent children (2 Kings 2:23-24, 2 Samuel 12:14). I'm not quite sure how you can say that a God that struck a tiny baby with an illness that caused it to languish in pain for 6 days before "slowly dying" on the 7th (2 Samual 12:14-18) and caused to bear to come out of the woods a maul 42 small children for simple childish teasing (2 Kings 2:23-24) isn't an awful tyrant.
For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...
by tec 54 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
pixiesticks
-
Black Sheep
How can you have faith in Jesus when ? " ... I believe that if something is in conflict with what Jesus said, then I think it was misunderstood or misapplied by whoever was listening and wrote it down."
How much of what was written about him can you believe if the writings are unreliable? Do you have to 'cherry pick' to make up the benevolent Jesus that you want?
What about the Jesus that vandalised the fig tree? No forgiveness, no humility, no charity, no mercy, and not much intelligence on display either. Just arrogance, showing off how tough he was to his mates. He was letting his true colours show, the psychotic tyrant with an inferiority complex.
Jehovah was like Donald Duck, flying off the handle when goaded by Hewey, Dewey and Louie, created in man's image, by men. Jesus was a creation of men too, as was Allah and the Rainbow Serpent. I think I'll make up my own God and endow him with my own foibles thanks.
Cheers
Chris
-
snowbird
TEC,
You're a brave heart, my friend.
Sylvia
-
awildflower
Snowbird you read my mind, I was going to say, Tec, just remember you asked for it sweetie.
-
THE GLADIATOR
Even if he was not the Messiah, I would believe in Jesus for the love and compassion and humility that he taught, and the example that he led. I would still try my best to follow that example.
tec, wanting to follow the example of a man as described above shows that you are a kind and decent person. I can't see many people having a problem with that.
This topic that you have started is an attempt to make the Hebrew desert god of the bible appear to be as kind and as friendly as you perceive Jesus to be.
Unfortunately you are on a hiding to nothing with that one. If I were you I would stick to plan 'A' as highlighted above.
All the best.
-
keyser soze
The people in the OT made mistakes about what God wanted and expected from them.
So God never commanded his people to commit mass genocide? He never put David and Bath-Sheba's child to death? He never struck down Uzzah simply for touching the Ark of the Covenant? All these events have been falsely recorded in the Old Testament? If you believe this, then you must believe that the New Testament is inspired but not the Old testament.
How convenient to accept as inspired only that which harmonizes with your preconceived idea of who God is.
-
notverylikely
The bottom line is that we learn about God from Jesus; not from the law. Whether the law was in place because the hebrews misunderstood, or were hard-hearted, or were unwilling/unable to follow anything better than what they had, Jesus came and taught us what his Father wanted from us: love and mercy.
So, couple of questions....
If the Jew were such hard hearted jerks, why did the big J select them as his people? If we learn about God from Jesus, would Jesus telling is the law was broken tell us that God selected an imperfect people and gave them a broken law?
Why couldn't god teach us about himself?
-
BurnTheShips
Paul said the Law was a tutor, existing to lead us to Christ.
A stony path, leading towards a shining city.
If the Law itself was literally perfect, there would have been no amending necessary.
BTS
-
The Oracle
Laughing at Outlaw - but I couldn't agree more!
I don`t mind Jesus..
Jehovah is a Phsycopath..
He definitly needs counseling..
And ..
Should never be let out in Public
-
notverylikely
How convenient to accept as inspired only that which harmonizes with your preconceived idea of who God is.
Of course it is. This is how I know god wants me to play golf, smoke a cigar and drink scotch tomorrow. All the letters that make up those words are in the bible.
Also, bible numerology backs it up. The number 6 in the bible signifies equilibrium. There are 6 letters in the word "scotch" and scotch definitely affects my equilibrium.
Golf has 4 letters, 4 in the bible signifies steadfastness. Golf is a game that requires mental steadfastness and overcoming mistakes, to keep moving forward in a steadfast manner.
Using a simple alphabet substitution cipher, r, the last letter in the word cigar, is the 18th letter of the alphabet, matching the 18 holes.
The first letter of the word, C, is the third letter, signifiying matching human and godly qualities. A good cigar is divine and as a human I will enjoy it.
I would keep going, but I think this clearly puts the matter to rest and proves it beyond a shadow of a doubt.