Clearly. Next question?
For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...
by tec 54 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
Yizuman
The reason you see God as a tyrant is because you live and dwell in your sin nature. Sin always rebels against God.
As JWs you have a hard time seeing God for who He truly is because you lived under the hardship of the WTS. Rules after rules, Elders breathing down your neck, watching the unloving provisions from the people (congregation) around you, their judging of you, attending all these meetings and going door to door to "earn" your salvation by turning in your time card. What you saw as a JW isn't really all that different from the times of the Teachers of the Law and the Pharasees. You saw what Jesus saw of them.
So Jesus came to tell you this isn't what you were lead to believe by the Teachers of the Law (Elders) and of the Pharasees (Gov Body) regarding who God is. Jesus showed you who God is by His actions because He lived by the Father's Will.
Jesus: Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father’s house there
are many dwelling places. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for
you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, so that
where I am, there you may be also. And you know the way to the place where I am going.
Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"
Jesus: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you
know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.
Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied."
Jesus: Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has
seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father
and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who
dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you
do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. Very truly, I tell you, the one who
believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.For most JWs and Non-JWs alike, they all have a hard time seeing the Father for who He truly is because: (1) JWs watched the unloving provisions by fellow JWs and those with Authority. (2) For Non-JWs, those who have a terrible Father who don't act what a real Father should act, so they have a hard time wrapping their heads around on see what a Loving Father is because they all too often compare their biological Father to God the Father and don't see any difference between them.
As for figures of Authority, Teachers, Cops, Parents, our nature abhores authority and we rebel against them, wanting to things OUR WAY. Don't lie to me, when your parents say, "NO!" you do think less of your parent do you? "Party pooper!" We don't like it when we're punished or to made feel guilty, it ticks you off, doesn't it?
Funny that, you feel that way until you have kids of your own and when you put your foot down and say no, the kids treat you the same way you treated your parents.
Yiz
-
Gladring
Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus approved of the OT laws.
-
THE GLADIATOR
Yizuman
Now I believe in the resurrection and the second coming - you have come back from the dead!
-
tec
Morning everyone!
Thanks for the rose and thumbs up, Sylvia... and yes, Awildflower, I suppose I did ask for the blasting. I just think it is important that we view God through Jesus, as he said, to have a true understanding of Him.
"I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him." (Thanks, Yiz. I don't know how to copy and paste my Mac. The functions work differently)
Keyser- I'm not accepting as inspired things that only harmonize with my pre-conceived ideas. My ideas about God come from Jesus. And I know that some of the things that Jesus said are in conflict with some OT understandings.
But take for example what Gladring posted above. Matt 5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no way pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Didn't Jesus then then go on to further clarify those laws, expanding our understanding of them? If people had them right, then why would he do that?
Do not murder meant also do not be angry with your brother. Eye for eye/tooth for tooth became do not repay evil with evil at all, but 'turn the other cheek.' If the least stroke of a pen was not to fall from the law until all was fulfilled, (although Jesus completed the work his Father sent him to do with his death, resurrection and the gift of the holy Spirit) then perhaps this is the way the Israelites were meant to understand it... but they were unwilling.
For example... when Jesus speaks of the sword, he is speaking of judgment. "I will come and fight against them with the sword of my mouth." Many times when he speaks of death, he speaks of spiritual death, and that given by the sword. The Israelites put to physical death anyone who broke the law of God.
Even in the OT, prophets admonished the people for their misunderstanding.
Jeremiah 8:19 - How can you say, 'we are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?
Words and such could have been misunderstood. I'm not saying that they were, but it is certainly possible, and it makes sense to me. Moses did have to give certain laws because the people would not accept anything better. (Certificate of divorce) Jesus came and showed us what is better; and those who could accept him did accept him.
Pixiesticks - thanks for posting the scriptures and verses. I know I haven't fully addressed wars and such, and I'm not ignoring you, but I'm going to be late for work:) Will get back to you.
Tammy
-
snowbird
Tammy
Oh, you're female!
Well, then, in that case ...
Sylvia
-
daniel-p
The OT God was nothing but a tribal war god for the Israelites. Sanctioned genocide, slavery, and subjugation of women. If you discount the actions of the Israelites you must at the same time discount the people they used to record their history, since they most obviously construct this God to control their own people. He is a loving god when it benefits them to believe in a loving god, and he is a murderous god when it benefits them to believe in a murderous god.
And even if you adhere to the means in which this god is presented to us in the Torah, there is no convincing reason why he would choose a "nation" as his "people" when he is suposedly the god of all mankind, creating humans from dust, and then instructing them to wipe out entire other "nations" in his name. Every nation or tribe at war in history demonizes the enemy. And the most intelligent, common-sense action for a loving god to take would be to unite all mankind by peaceful means, not murderous rampages, as was in the benefit of these obscure war tribes to do so and believe they had this powerful god on their side. Really, the way the OT constructs this god is so transparent, I almost feel embarrased for those who believe that he is real and worthy of being worshipped.
-
snowbird
I almost feel embarrased for those who believe that he is real and worthy of being worshipped.
I do feel intense pity for those who could read the Prologue to the Gospel of John and be entranced by its wonder, but who refuse, due to whatever reason.
Sylvia
-
MadGiant
“For people who use the OT to try and prove that God is an awful tyrant...”
With all due respect, I don’t have to prove that the dog it’s a tyrant. The tyrant did that all by himself. Just read the bible!
“The people in the OT made mistakes about what God wanted and expected from them. Some of the laws that were given were in place because they were too hard-hearted to accept anything more merciful.” - tec
Are you implying that the bible is not dog’s word? 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Where can I find those mistakes? Do I get to pick and choose the passages I want?
Jesus also said:
1. Hate your family. Luke 14:26, Matthew 10:34, Matthew 10:21
2. That the Jews are unruly, vain talkers, deceivers and motivated by money. 1Thessalonians 2:15, Titus 1:10-11
3. He didn’t come in peace. Matthew 10:34
4. He speaks in parables to confuse people (what a jerk). Matthew 13:10-14
5. That he tells people lies to trick them in order to damn them. 2Thessalonians 2:11-12
6. That the dog makes some people evil on purpose so he can condemn them. Jude 1:5, Romans 8:29-30
7. That all who offends him shall be thrown into a burning furnace to wail and gnash their teeth. (so much about turning the other cheek). Matthew 13:41-42
8. That he didn’t come to change the laws followed by the Jews. Matthew 5:17-19
That book is a work of fiction.
I took this from another website:
The dog placed two types of people on this, his only planet that matters:
(1) Those who critically analyze and evaluate all available information, making decisions, including those involving their belief systems, based on thought, facts and reason; and
(2) Folks who have been blessedly spared such tedium.
Take care,
Ismael
-
daniel-p
I do feel intense pity for those who could read the Prologue to the Gospel of John and be entranced by its wonder, but who refuse, due to whatever reason.
In my opinion, the only thing in the entire Bible worth taking to heart is the Sermon on the Mount. Other stuff may have value historically, philisophically, or literarily, but out of the entire thing that's the only portion I can say offers a clear antethisis to the archaic war-tribe sentiments of the OT.