I've know an ethiopian who made that claim but after knowing him for a while I was quite certain ,noway. I believe it's an equal oportunity thing but you have to remain faithful until death . There are requirements such as , selling all your belongings and giving gifts to the poor keeping the preaching work as the main focus of your existence ,and keeping free from all the things the apostle Paul stated as barring people from entering the kingdom. I also don't believe womens claim to heavenly rulership however it is possible to receive holy spirit , since they did in the old testament and first century. The number I believe is literal since the great crowd is mentioned as never knowing death at all and survivng the GT .
The 14,400-Anointed JWs, are they only whites no people of color???
by Scott77 50 Replies latest jw friends
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AGuest
A Guest
Peace to you, dear cameo-d!
This is BUNK.
No, it's true. Really.
True Royalty, spiritually, is not determined by bloodline.
Actually, dear one... it is determined by both. For the 144,000... it is determined by bloodline AND faith. For the great crowd, it is only by faith.
The 144,000 are chosen because of the promise the Most Holy One of Israel made to Abraham. It was Abraham's seed... the entire nation that descended from Isaac... that was supposed to make up the full "holy nation" to God. That nation, however... Israel... who descend from Isaac's son Jacob (aka Israel)... rejected the King that God gave them as their leader and so God rejected them, but only in part. Rather than reject the ENTIRE nation, He saved over some for Himself. Thus, He designated 144,000 slots that would go to Abraham's seed, 12,000 from each tribe, excluding Dan (Joseph, as Rachel's firstborn son, receives 2 shares).
He chose the REST of those who make up that "holy nation"... those who would REPLACE those of Israel... out of EVERY nation, tribe, tongue, and people. That's why no man is able to number that group, because Abraham's seed was to be "as the sands of the sea." So, their replacements would be a significant number. It is because of Israel's LACK of faith... in the One sent to be their King... that God will take out of the NATIONS... a people for His name. The great crowd.
And furthermore, ms. hoitytoity, anyone living today who might "have Abraham's blood" would have such a watered down fraction of it that even the WT would not consider it real blood.
Not quite. What you... and many others, including the WTBTS... forget, though... is that the blood SPEAKS. And so, even if the amount of blood is minimal, perhaps even only a DROP... the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... can HEAR it. HE knows who the seed of Abraham are - while we may have been hidden from our Adversary until the time we reveal ourselves... we have NEVER been hidden from HIM.
Oh, and btw, Abraham was not a Jew....he was a Canaanite.
Who said Abraham was a Jew? He is the father of the Jews... as well as the father of the Levites, Simeonites, Reubenites, Dannites, etc. (i.e., those who make up the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel... vs. Jews, who are from the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah). And he was a Hebrew, the name given to those who descended from Eber... long before he relocated from Ur (where he originated) to Canaan (the land which God gave him).
I've know an ethiopian who made that claim but after knowing him for a while I was quite certain, noway.
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, dear Heathen (and peace to you, as well!). Indeed, there are many who make such a claim but are false, but since I don't know this individual... and the Holy Spirit hasn't revealed anything about him to ME... I certainly can't say one way or another.
I believe it's an equal oportunity thing but you have to remain faithful until death.
Or transfiguration, depending where one is in the stream of time, yes...
There are requirements such as, selling all your belongings and giving gifts to the poor keeping the preaching work as the main focus of your existence ,and keeping free from all the things the apostle Paul stated as barring people from entering the kingdom.
Unfortunately, you are wrong, there, dear one. The only requirement... is faith. However, such faith would CAUSE one to do the first two things you mention. As for the things mentions by Paul... you are mistaken (as most of those who follow Paul are). You only need look to the account of the man on the tree next to my Lord to know this. Some say he was a thief; some say a murderer. Both actions are condemned by Paul. Yet, my Lord told the man that he WOULD see him in Paradise... NOT because the man repented (nothing says he did)... but because of his faith IN my Lord, as the Son of God.
Paul was trying to present the congregation "as a chaste virgin." What he didn't understand was that it wasn't works of the flesh that was at issue... but works of the SPIRIT. Because it is by means of the SPIRIT... that one overcomes the works of the flesh... and NOT the other way around, as many, including the WTBTS falsely teach. Indeed, WITHOUT first cleansing the SPIRIT (i.e., the INSIDE of the "cup")... one CANNOT cleanse the body/flesh (i.e., OUTSIDE of the "cup").
I also don't believe womens claim to heavenly rulership however it is possible to receive holy spirit , since they did in the old testament and first century.
You're kidding, right? No, seriously... you're kidding. You apparently listen to Paul: did he not write that "there is neither male NOR female"? And what of our Lord's response when he was asked whose wife a woman would be, after having been married many times in the flesh... in the kingdom? Did he not say "THEY... will be like the angels?" Hmmm... perhaps your bias is what is standing between YOU... and hearing/seeing the Christ. Just something to think about...
The number I believe is literal since the great crowd is mentioned as never knowing death at all and survivng the GT.
It is literal, dear one... and, again...
Peace to you, both!
A slave of Christ,
SA (aka Ms. HoityToity)
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Scott77
I prefer to believe what Kayser Soze has started. However, since AQuest is not part of the JW GB-approved brand of 144000, but still claims entitlement to that number, I bet Ms Hoity Toity is a member of completely new breed of 'another 144000' claimants. I did initiate this thread to expose the falcy of the GB-sponsored 144000 docrine but now, AQuest has unexpectedly jumped into the picture. To me, this is very strange. By the way, was you (AQuest) a JW before? If yes, how long and, did you used to partake the emblem then?
Scott77
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dgp
All right, a little background from an unbeliever.
Jehovah wants you to be saved, so he hid the code for salvation in the Bible. He hid it so well that no one found it during eighteen centuries or so. Now, a white American man by the name of Miller dug oil-deep well into the Bible and discovered/unearthed/disinterred Jehovah's hidden code, and another white man was the guy who really got it correct (well, plus or minus a year... two, a generation, many generations, well, I don't know how correct he got it, but he got it correct...). Anyways. Charles Taze Russell gave us the Chronology.
This chronology states that the calling would end in I don't remember what year, but many years ago. If you give me some time I will find my New Mag-Light and will tell you the year, but for the time being stick to the Present Truth and suppose it was 1914. Since, by that time, it was mostly -or exclusively- white Americans who had heard the calling, and then, naturally, Jehovah closed the door to more anointings and, voilá, Only The White Would Go to The Heavens. Picture South Africa before Mandela. In all fairness, this was not the white's fault, but the fault of the colored. Jehovah had sent his messenger available, but the colored had the curious habit of living in far away places, such as, for example, China, and so they didn't hear the calling and were not anointed. Why did they choose to live in China, for example, if Chinatown already existed? Jehovah was fair, and so he fixed things: well, the colored won't go to the Heavens, but they can live forever in Paradise Earth. As in "All right, let's make some room for you". Some other whites can live in Paradise, too!
You also have to know that the Anointed were The Generation That Wouldn't Pass Away. I know, because I received that magazine from a witness. Jesus would return visibly (because he's already here invisibly) before those guys died. And it was only the anointed who could really speak for the rest of the Anointed, so only them could be members of the Governing Body.
Nowadays, when many if not most of the witnesses are not white, and when the generation that wouldn't pass away has been virtually swept away, Jehovah found himself in the problem of not having more workers for his vineyard. The old servants he had would pass away, too. And the Corporations that are His Mouthpiece on Earth decided that they would do what any other corporation does: bring in the unanointed, that is to say, people with dark skin, who are very good at doing manual labor. This sounds like a way out of a serious problem, but only if you do such a horrible thing as independent thinking.
But waiting on Jehovah has advantages. Now there are more and more people discovering that they are of the Anointed!! Some of them might even have foreign names!! And now, a non-anointed can speak for the Anointed. It's no longer true that Jehovah only speaks to the 144,000 he chose.
See?
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jaguarbass
I work in a jail. Detention officers say among ourselves.
White people are crazy, black people are just bad.
That sums up why there may be more whites who are of the 144,000.
White people are crazy.
Also The wactowr is a 20th century religion based in the USA.
For most of the 20th Century Whites were the majority in the US.
Now, with Jehovahs witnesses being like Scientology for Blacks,
There will probably be more blacks claiming to be anointed,
Which means there will be more crazy blacks.
Obama opened the way for equality.
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blondie
There was a very prolific colored, Negro, black jw brother in the early 1900's, W(illiam) R. Brown, sometimes called "Bible" Brown. He was from Trinidad and Rutherford (1923) sent him and his family from Trinidad to various countries to preach to the "colored" as the WTS referred to them back then.
I can assume that he was anointed since they all were back in 1909 when he was baptized. Black Bible Students were sent to talk to other black people since there was a cultural and social barrier yet between blacks and whites. I can see why a black man would not be on the board of directors (the defacto governing body back then). (picture on p. 434 of the Proclaimers book confirms he was a black man)
*** yb77 p. 243 Panama ***Shortly before that, W. R. Brown, who later became known as "Bible" Brown in Nigeria, West Africa, had become interested in the good news. That was in 1907, when he attended a street-corner lecture given by Isaiah Richards. The Bible discourse was based on the "Chart of the Ages," which was used as an aid in explaining God’s purposes. Upon learning the truth, Brown returned to Jamaica. His purpose? To take the truth to his mother and sister. Both accepted it and expressed their faith by baptism. That was in 1909. Returning still later to Colón, Brother Brown became employed as a launch pilot. He proved to be very zealous for the truth. So when colporteurs Morgan and Laing got started in Panama City, Brown immediately left Colón and joined them in spreading the good news. The three of them then rented a three-room apartment; they lived in one room and used the other two for meetings and storage.
*** yb89 p. 161 Barbados, West Indies ***For example, in 1918, while going through her husband’s pockets before doing the laundry, Philippa found a Bible tract that had been given to him by W. R. Brown. This tract sparked interest. Both she and her husband studied and accepted the truth and then were baptized on August 1, 1918.
*** yb79 p. 174 Leeward Islands ***In 1919, the International Bible Students held a convention in Barbados. Among those present was W. H. Rock, then 19 and the only delegate from Montserrat. At that gathering, he met W. R. Brown and invited him to visit the island. Brother Brown did so with his new bride the very next year. Describing that visit, Brown wrote in later years: "In 1920 my wife and I were married, but there was work to be done. Two days after our wedding we left Trinidad for Montserrat with the Photo-Drama of Creation. We witnessed in Dominica, Barbados and Grenada, then returned to Trinidad. It was a joyful honeymoon in Jehovah’s service."
The Photo-Drama of Creation (a photographic presentation regarding God’s purpose for the earth and man) was shown at a number of locations in Montserrat during the visit of Brother Brown and his wife. Edward Edgecombe, recently deceased, recalled one of these showings and said: "The lantern slides were excellently arranged and very encouraging to everyone. All were impressed with Brother Brown’s resource of facts and his ability to present them so clearly." Brother Brown and his wife were quite busy during the visit, moving about and sharing the truth with many.
On the way back to Trinidad in 1920, the Browns stopped in Dominica. Brother Brown had been there in 1915 and had placed volumes of StudiesintheScriptures with a businessman by the name of De Boin. He, in turn, passed them on to E. F. Dumas. Mr. Dumas read the books. His interest was aroused and he wrote the Watch Tower Society for a supply of literature to pass on to businessmen, the clergy and others. In the meantime, he wrote Brother Brown, inviting him to visit Dominica. The Browns stopped there in 1920 and the Photo-Drama was shown in a small hall.
*** yb87 pp. 221-222 Trinidad and Tobago ***"BIBLE" BROWN WORKS WITH E. J. COWARD
That same year a Jamaican, William R. Brown, arrived in Trinidad to assist in the spreading of the good news. For some ten years he worked with his wife, and for a time with Brother Coward, in covering much territory in Trinidad, Tobago, and neighboring islands. It would be years before there would be organized supervision under a branch office, but both Coward and the Browns visited and strengthened the small groups that were beginning to manifest themselves. Then in 1923 Brother Brown and his wife were given a thrilling new assignment to West Africa, where he earned the name "Bible" Brown.
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yb86pp.189-190Nigeria ***James Namikpoh, a bookbinder and printer in the government printery in Lagos, heard of these classes and began associating with the little group in 1923. He made quick progress and became the first Nigerian to take up active preaching. Mrs. Odunlami soon followed. Later that year Joshua Owenpa saw TheHarpofGod on the table of a co-worker at the railway office in Lagos, borrowed it, read all night, quickly began to associate with the study group, and became the third Nigerian active in Jehovah’s service.
That same year, William R. Brown, a Jamaican, entered the West African scene. He came from Trinidad, which had been his base for preaching throughout the Caribbean. Having given a witness in most of the islands there, he was invited by J. F. Rutherford, the president of the Watch Tower Society, to ‘proceed to Sierra Leone, West Africa, with wife and child.’
From there he visited Nigeria in November 1923 and gave his first lecture at the Glover Memorial Hall. During this brief visit he also distributed hundreds of Watch Tower publications in business houses and government offices. W. R. Brown was again in Lagos in 1926, this time lecturing to overflowing crowds at the Glover Memorial Hall. On this trip he also encouraged Brothers Namikpoh and Owenpa to widen out the scope of their preaching activity. Brother Owenpa later wrote:
Thus Vincent Samuels from America and two West Indians named Brown played important roles in the early stages of the work in Nigeria. A good start was made and the work continued to grow.
"BLACK" BROWN AND "BIBLE" BROWN
Claude Brown came to be known as "Black" Brown. William Brown was called "Bible" Brown, for, as he himself wrote: "When lecturing I always used lantern slides, enabling me to flash every Scripture text on the screen and then explain it." It was first in Sierra Leone that he was called "Bible" Brown, because he was fond of saying, "Not Brown says, but the Bible says."
Regarding the religious leaders, William Brown wrote: "At the time the public had little regard for what they called ‘the white man’s religion.’ It was appropriate that I speak at the Glover Memorial Hall on the failure of Christendom’s religion. Accordingly I advertised the lecture in the three leading newspapers. A Catholic editor submitted my write-up to Dr. Moses Da Rocha, who wrote a letter and had it published alongside my ad. He urged the government of Nigeria to prohibit my meetings or at least send policemen to preserve the peace. He appealed to various religious leaders in Lagos to send their ablest representatives to my meeting and smash to pieces my ‘heretical theses.’ Policemen and many church representatives did show up.
Recognizing that the Nigerian field seemed more fertile than any other West African country at the time, William Brown transferred his residence to Lagos by the end of 1930. The Society’s West Africa branch office was also established there, having oversight of Nigeria, Gold Coast (now Ghana), and Sierra Leone.
The convention’s news pamphlet, TheMessenger, carried this report from Brother Brown:
"A vigorous witness is being given [in West Africa]. The little band here travels over 2,000 miles [3,200 km] along the coast by steamships and other means of conveyance. They also travel by train and car over 700 miles [1,130 km] into the interior. Although more than half the population in this vast area is illiterate, yet it’s surprising to see how readily the reading community purchase the books, in order to know something about God and the Bible."
Such preaching tours proved to be an effective means of reaching people with the truth. W. R. Brown traveled extensively to give public lectures and get the Kingdom work started in new places. He wrote: "I never felt at home sitting in the chair in the office for any length of time. I would budget my time so that I could be out . . . delivering the good news orally and by printed page. . . .
"When entering a village . . . I would go to the chief and invite him to attend the lecture to be given in front of his compound. It was not uncommon for the chief to send a man around the village advertising the talk with a bell. The chief’s people would spread a large carpet for him and place a chair on it. There he would sit with a man holding an umbrella over him and sometimes a man with a large ostrich fan keeping him cool. Thousands would attend."...
AU REVOIR, "BIBLE" BROWN
After 27 years of service in West Africa, Brother Brown and his family left Nigeria on April 4, 1950, for the West Indies. This was considered newsworthy by a member of the Legislative Council who was also editor of the DailyTimes. He published an article captioned "‘BIBLE BROWN’ SAYS AU REVOIR, NOT GOOD-BYE," in which he said: "Today ‘Bible’ Brown has become an institution and is the friend of all, young and old, European, African and Lebanese, even by those who disagreed with him and hated his religious propaganda. . . . Lagos will miss the familiar figure of ‘Bible’ Brown, and all his friends will wish him and Mrs. Brown good luck in their home in the Caribbean Isles." Ten years later, in connection with Nigeria’s independence celebrations, the governor-general, who well remembered the good work done by "Bible" Brown, invited them to return to Nigeria for a visit as guests of the government.
*** yb77 p. 140 Liberia ***In 1926, Claude Brown, a Bible Student from Freetown, Sierra Leone, visited Monrovia for a few weeks. He paved the way for the visit of W. R. ("Bible") Brown, of the Watch Tower Society’s West African branch. For three weeks, W. R. Brown, a powerful exponent of Jehovah’s kingdom, spoke nightly at the Hall of the House of Representatives in Monrovia and also distributed many books. Crowds, including the most prominent personages, flocked to hear the dramatic revelations of truth stirringly expounded.
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AGuest
was you (AQuest) a JW before?
Yes, dear Scott (and, again, peace to you!)... and quintessentially, unfortunately (except I didn't call/think of anyone as a "goat"... was often embarassed by what "we" said about and how we were to treat others, including non-believers, ridiculers, and the DFd...).
If yes, how long
15 years...
and, did you used to partake the emblem then?
Yes. BTW way, toward the end, a couple of the "old-breed" folks that I knew (who were very old) didn't seem to have a problem with me. In fact, we delighted in one another's company. What I did find strange, though, is that they tended to speak to me in "code"... which very often indicated that they knew, now, that the WTBTS wasn't who they claimed to be. I felt their "fear" of the JWs... and that since they were over 80 (one was over 95)... that they felt they had no choice but to stay (i.e., where were they gonna go, except the nursing home, which is actually where they ended up... and if not for us "newer breed" ones... alone).
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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Scott77
Blondie has unearthed new information previously unknown to us. Thank you. This profoundly raises more questions than answers. Assuming 'Bible' Brown was already anointed before 1914 and the number was sealed by 1935, how comes then explains the GB's appointment of Samuel Hards and more, an increase in new breeds of 144000 claimants born after 1914? Also, since JW religion is exclusively an American creation, cannot we conclude that 99.98 percent of 144000 claimants were white American?
Scott77
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OUTLAW
I prefer to believe what Kayser Soze has started. However, since AQuest is not part of the JW GB-approved brand of 144000
, but still claims entitlement to that number, I bet Ms Hoity Toity is a member of
completely new breed of 'another 144000' claimants. I did initiate this thread to expose the falcy of the GB-sponsored 144000 docrine but now
, AQuest has unexpectedly jumped into the picture. To me, this
is very strange. By the way, was you (AQuest) a JW before? If yes, how long and, did you used to partake the emblem then?
Scott77
Aguest/Shelby is a long time member of JWD/JWN..
As a recognized member of the WBT$ Annointed..She had the Courage,to Challenge the WBT$ teachings..
She traveled to Bethel to do it..
Her original work..Ended up being Printed in Millions of Watchtowers..
There is a reason Shelby has the respect,of many on this board..
She "Earned" it..
........................... ...OUTLAW
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blondie
And, Scott77, based on the ratio of men to women in the WTS, mostly white American women.
