Why I'm going to burn in Hell for eternity.

by Open mind 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Ok, so lets look at it his way:

    God knows everything, God knows why we believe and why we lovae and whey we DON'T.

    On our death, let us suppose we shall be judged at that moment:

    At that moment we shall see God, we shall have no futher doubt whatsoever of God and God will know what we feel and think and whether we repent in his prescense or not, God will know if we are sorry for all that we have done, or not, God will know if we forgive or not, God knows and we will be in God prescence and we will be Judged.

    Now, know all that, will you repent and forgive and ask forgiveness? or will you give God the middle finger?

    Well, if you decide the finger and end up somewhere rather unpleasant, who's fault is that and who is to blame?

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    God doesn't demand anyone to love him. God doesn't force anyone to love him. He "merely" loves us unconditionally, and invites us to share in his love. We can freely choose to love him--or not. We choose where we spend eternity. We choose our love. If we choose to be with God, we are in heaven. If we choose to not be with him, and be with something else, that is the place called hell.

    BTS

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut
    But the truth is that I am defending the God that Jesus showed us by word and example: loving, forgiving, protective of innocents, merciful and compassionate.

    But we have to dismiss the God that Jesus read about in the OT in order to do that. That makes either the OT God a myth or else the NT God is the ideal fantasy.

    If the things in the OT happened, I pretty much have God figured out. If they are allegory, then so might the NT be.

    Anyway, let's not steal OM's thread with such endless debate. This is sort of in harmony with his thoughts, but further debate is not.

    why am I defending a God that people believe ordered rape and murder of innocents, as well as baby head-bashing? Would God want someone to follow that idea of Him?

    I don't happen to just "believe" that. It's in the book.

  • Open mind
    Open mind

    BTS said:

    "God doesn't demand anyone to love him. God doesn't force anyone to love him."

    That's your own human ethics and values filtering through, IMO.

    These words are attributed to Jesus:

    Matthew 22:36, 37 (King James Version)

    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

    (Bold added by me.)

    God commands his followers to love him. If they choose not to, he will, at minimum, kill them with no hope of a resurrection (Watchtower) or at maximum torture them for eternity (Fundamentalist Christians I have spoken with, but, apparently not Perry.) . Can you see my conundrum? How can I genuinely love a god like that? And if my love isn't genuine, I'm toast anyway as He can see through fakery.

    If I ever end up standing before the Creator of the Universe to answer for my past deeds, my only defense will be the following:

    You should live your life and try to make the world a better place for your being in it, whether or not you believe in god. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, he will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in him.

    If He/She/It is cool with that, I could probably genuinely love a higher power like that. But Watchtower God or Bible God? Sorry. They give God a bad name, IMO.

    om

    p.s. Stil waiting to hear from Perry on the fate of those who cannot bring themselves to love a God who commands it.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Someone, please save me a seat in Hell. I'll fit right in.

  • HintOfLime
    HintOfLime
    Ok, HOL, how would YOU handle the situation?

    Personally, I wouldn't put a handgun in the bedroom of a 2-year old and tell them not to touch it.

    If I were an all-intelligent creator... I think my strategy would be to AVOID the death and suffering of 100 billion people, rather than how to clean-up after the fact.

    If there is absolutely no way that humans can rule themselves... and you knew no good could come from asking that question - then wouldn't the best thing to do simply prevent that question from being asked? There is no positive purpose in going down that road.

    If the end result is a world where everybody loves God - then why not just create that world to begin with?

    And forget the "free will" crap. If someone puts a gun to your head and tells you to "do X or die" - you do not have free will. God says "worship me (and send money) or I'll pull the trigger." That is not free will.

    - Lime

  • glenster
    glenster

    Depends on the Hell. There's Christian Universalism. The coverted go to
    Heaven and the others are converted--only their systems are destroyed. Then God
    promptly changes the name of the place to Hell. Everybody goes to Hell when
    they die and you can't leave--(Sam Kinison scream): Aaaigh.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_in_Christian_beliefs
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_universalism

  • mindmelda
    mindmelda

    I don't defend the OT God much...he's kind of a prick, really, sometimes to the people who worshipped him. I don't even pretend to understand the "abused child" mentality of all that, but hey, I'm not a Jew, so I'll leave the OT G-d to them to explain.

    But, I would guess, cautiously that he's the God a tribe of people living under fairly harsh conditions wanted at the time.

    No no, the command is how to love God, with your whole mind and spirit, not TO love him.

    Although Jews were kind of stuck, having offered to him as a nation of people.

    I think they had agreed to OBEY God as a nation, love can't be commanded from humans. Well, it can, but that's called BDSM and requires lots of leather and chains and a whip.

    My dog loves me for treats and so her love can be commanded, but she also thinks I'm God and I'm not going to tell her different.

    Personally, I think most of the good stuff religion commands us to do can be gotten to by means of secular humanism. I don't think of that as a negative towards religion, but a positive about God himself.

    It's how we operate optimally anyway in regards to each other which makes God, if there is one, seem a lot nicer than one who makes people jump through hoops all day...like a dog after treats. If he had something to do with human nature, then he made it easier to be good to each other than a lot of religion would have us believe. Mighty nice of him.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff

    Drawing on the analogy of a 'Father' [not mine, but the Bible's analogy], I see even greater problems:

    Not only is the 'Father' expecting me to love him/her/it by command in order to gain favor. He is also expecting me to do so based on some old tattered letters he left on the counter in a foreign language, some of them gathered into a 'canon' by ancient relatives, translated into my language, and the 'original' letters discarded or lost. Those letters detail my 'father' to be willing/able to kill millions mercilessly if they failed to 'love' him. They tell of a 'father' that more closely resembles Stalin or Hitler than Ghandi or Mother Theresa. They tell how he turned a blind eye to significant 'sin' by some of my ancient relatives, while killing innocent babies for being of the wrong 'tribe'. My 'father' is hiding all along, refusing to come out to repeated cries by his children, including me. He won't come and explain his view on things personally, he just keeps insisting that others do so. I am told that the only way to have favor is to 'love' this invisible 'father' or he will kill me forever, perhaps roast me forever.

    If I had a fleshly father like that I would do everything I could to distance myself from him. I would find a way out of that house and run until I could not run any further.

    No thanx. He is no father of mine. He is a fraud and a coward. He is a despot. No wonder many of his followers are the same.

    Jeff

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    snowbird Imo, the only person who deserves an everlasting roast is the Evil One.

    Romans 3:23 (New International Version)

    23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

    Romans 3:9-20 (New International Version)

    No One is Righteous
    9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written:
    "There is no one righteous, not even one;
    11 there is no one who understands,
    no one who seeks God.
    12 All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one."
    13 "Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit."
    "The poison of vipers is on their lips."
    14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
    15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
    17 and the way of peace they do not know."
    18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

    19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

    How can the havoc he has wreaked possibly be undone?

    Romans 3:22-26 (New International Version)

    22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

    Footnotes:
    1. Romans 3:25 Or as the one who would turn aside his wrath, taking away sin

    Blessings,

    Stephen

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