by Etude 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Whether or not they are a cult by a particular definition is not really that important unless you are one of those people who likes to categorise everyone into nice little boxes.
The issues are, are they a mind control group? are they dangerous?
Here is the first answer ............ I'm continually surprised how those bastards snake their way out of doctrinal cages and still manage to keep the majority of the flock in tow.
Black Sheep:
I'm well aware of the "issues". At no time did I minimize the impact of what these people do. That is not an excuse for ignoring or having a lack of understanding how others view them. No, I'm not "one of those people who like to categorize everyone into nice little boxes". But, I'll be damned if I'm going to ignore that other people do, especially with regard to a dangerous organization like the WTBTS. It can make a difference. You can ignore that and bury your head in the sand. I'll just keep questioning to make sure I'm not missing something.
Etude.
Using the definition provided in "Combatting Cult Mind Conrol" and on Steve Hassan's website, they most definitely ARE.
"A destructive cult is a pyramid-shaped authoritarian regime with a person or group of people that have dictatorial control. It uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members). It also uses mind control techniques to keep people dependent and obedient. The BITE mind control model is my way of understanding the phenomenon. Dr. Robert Jay Lifton has his Eight Criteria for Thought Reform. Dr. Margaret Singer has her Six Conditions for understanding Destructive cults typically seek to "clone" recruits in the image of the cult leader, rather than respect and encourage their individuality, creativity and self-will."~Steve Hassan
Christianity itself was called a 'cult' - in both good and bad connotations - in its infancy...
Some of us would still refer to it as a 'cult' - or more accurately, a group of religions with a cultic beginning...
Zid 
If you were to walk up to a JW and tell them that they are in a cult, and that you have all the information that they need to prove it to them, most would refuse to look at the information. Why? Because people in a cult have been indoctrinated to believe that they are not in a cult. They won't even consider hard facts and research of people who are experts in the field of cults and mind control.
If you walk up to somebody that is not in a cult, and make the same offer - you will likely find that they will gladly consider the facts. They have nothing to lose, and they haven't been indoctrinated with fears and phobias that would make them afraid or hesitant to look at facts.
Excellent point mentallyfree. Hassan mentions what you say in his book, too.
No legitimate organization will balk at full disclosure and investigation. A HUGE clue that an organization is a cult (in the negative sense) is the fact that its members refuse to do any real research investigating whether it is.
If you were to walk up to a JW and tell them that they are in a cult, and that you have all the information that they need to prove it to them, most would refuse to look at the information.
Naturally! If you approached Republicans with proof that their party has had as much or more budgetary expenditures than the Democrats, the majority would refuse the facts as well. That's human nature. It's worse with JWS because they are actively encouraged to give up their brains to someone else. I agree that this is a “cult” feature. But in reality, I don't care what you call it to know what they're doing. I was just concerned with other people's perception (the media, the government, etc) of what this group really is. A non-negative label tends to add to their legitimacy. The fact is that many don't view the WTBTS as a cult. Why? How do we change that perception? How do we change ours without giving up the truth in order to adjust?
Etude.
What do all religious cults have basically in common?
1. He/she/Body (figurehead) speaks for God.
2. Followers must unquestionably follow the figurehead, (sit down, shut up, "OR ELSE" severe sanctions).
Etude, the key to getting the negatives out there is education. Most people see the public face of the Borg. JWs are indoctrinated to act a certain way in order to appear relatively normal to outsiders. Discussions of disfellowshipping and the shunning of loved ones that it entails, people dying due to refusal of blood transfusions, coverups of pedophelia within congregations, or even the simple fact that they have no real free time on weekends, are all topics that an active JW will NEVER EVEN CONSIDER discussing with a "worldly" person. Therefore worldly people have NO IDEA that those things even exist within the Borg.
Dubs have had a lot longer to perfect coverups and hiding of their seedy side than newer, more obvious and brazen cults like Scientology. You can hear Tom Cruise on TV and JUST KNOW they're a cult. If you ever got a Dub on TV you'd see nothing but the good side, the hope of a paradise earth with pet lions and peace among all mankind. The ONLY way to bring out the truth is to educate people about them.
They ARE a cult and in many ways are worse than the really wacko suicide cults. At least in a suicide cult the suffering is brief. The Borg will eat you alive for decades.
Mad Sweeney:
I know, I know. I really have no problem calling the WTBTS, the Mormons, Scientology, Christian Scientists, the Freemasonry or the Rosicrucians cults. Heck, I believe that if we go by the sociological definition of cult, the good ol' Catholic mother church is a cult. I mean (this if for you skeeter1) the Pope speaks for God and is indeed the ultimate authority down to whether you should wear a condom or not. And, although not commonly used, they do have excommunication and can tell their clergy or laity to “shut up and sit down” or get out. But alas, nobody in the media or scholastic circles calls them a cult. When I used to go door to door in Field Service, I often encountered individuals who would assure me that they were born Catholic, raised Catholic and would always be Catholic, even if I proved to them that Mary was not always a virgin and that the Church lied.
If heads are rolling in the Catholic hierarchy these days, it's not for lack of trying to cover up all the decades of child abuse. The cat is out of the bag because people talked and the media listened and lawsuits were served. The result is a more accurate representation of the Church beyond their pious squeaky-clean image. So, it doesn't really matter if they're a cult or not as long as the truth is out. I just thought that if some people “in the know” think that the WTBTS is not a cult, we could talk about the JWS in the proper context, i.e. major religions like it are very f***ed up judging from what they do, instead of dismissing them as just another “cult”. I mean, I want to get at those bastards, not because of what they did to me (I'm very OK now), but because they're still keeping my family hostage. I want to do it intelligently and reasonably, taking into account a complete view of the world towards them. Am I being a bit anal about this? Maybe I'm just putting too fine a point on it.
Etude
