Well yes, in fact I do feel that many major religions are cults to be perfectly honest. ANY religion or group which takes the locus of control away from the individual and steals his or her freedom and is not allowed to use his own mind is a cult . Read Steve Hassan's books on " cult mind control" and you'll discover that
Is the Jehovahs Witnesses organization really a cult?
by Etude 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Etude
Flipper:
I feel the same way. But, that's not the point. And, I'm not debating what characteristics constitute a cult. Why do people that can make significant contributions to opinion (i.e. the media and some scholars) don't agree with you and me? That's the perception I want to get to the root of, which may affect my own definitions (no the way I feel about cults, especially the JW). I don't want to just care about what I opine. I want to consider what other people think that differ with my opinion in order to respond appropriately. That's all.
Etude.
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Scarred for life
Yes, the Jehovah's Witness organization is a cult. No doubt in my mind.
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flipper
ETUDE- " People that make significant contributions to opinion " DO agree with you and me what constitutes a cult. Steve Hassan has been interviewed on major T.V. programs and is a highly respected cult exit counselor. He has two books " Combatting Cult Mind Control " and " Releasing the Bonds - Empowering People to Think for Themselves " . In the second book- Hassan mentions Jehovah's Witnesses and gives several reasons and experiences dealing with their mind control tactics. I highly suggest reading his books. A must read for any ex-witness
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Mad Sweeney
You're on the right track, Etude. This is a great thread. All of the input is valuable. "Cult" is an ok word for us to use among ourselves but I feel like the connotations and the clear lack of a universally accepted definition of the word make it problematic for use in a serious public awareness program. I'm not sure whether there is a single word we can use to categorize the WT and JWs that both conveys the real and complete meaning we "just know" when we use the term "cult" while at the same time is commonly understood by the public.
Long story short: I think to explain the problem of the WTS is going to take more than a single word. "Cult" works informally with us on JWN but won't cut it with the public.
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Etude
Flipper:
I understand. But Steve Hassan is not the only and finalauthority on the subject. If you recall, the reason I started the thread was because I heard this on a program which I respect very much. The comment was about Mormons not being a cult but a world-wide mainstream religion. So, I'm not debating or even contradicting what a cult is or that the JW are a cult. The issue is that other significant individuals disagree with you and me about that. This adds to the legitimacy of the WTBTS. I wondered if there's a better way to fight that perception, not whether it is true or not. Capice?
For example: Read the following opinion:
The LDS meets three definitions of the term "cult:"
"Cult" is derived from the French word "culte" which came from Latin noun "cultus." The latter is related to the Latin verb "colere" which means "to worship or give reverence to a deity."
Theological use: Oxford English Dictionary defined "cult" as: "worship; reverential homage rendered to a divine being or beings." "a particular form or system of religious worship; especially in reference to its external rites and ceremonies." "devotion or homage to a particular person or thing." Thus, in its original theological meaning, the term "cult" can be applied to any group of religious believers, whether they be Mormons, Southern Baptists, Methodists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, etc.
And....
The LDS once met a neutral definition of the term "cult" -- but no longer:
Sociological usages: A small religious group that exists in a state of tension with the predominant religion. A small, recently created, religious organization which is often headed by a single charismatic leader and is viewed as an spiritually innovative group. The primitive Christian movements, including Jewish Christianity, Pauline Christianity and Gnostic Christianity, would have qualified for these meanings of "cult" back in the first century CE. The LDS Church would have qualified as a "cult" in the 1830s shortly after Joseph Smith founded the Church of Christ.
However, the LDS Church has been established for almost two centuries, and has in excess of 13 million adherents around the world. The sociological definition definitely does not fit. Under this definition, the LDS Church is not a cult. [The emphasis is mine]
http://www.religioustolerance.org/ldscult.htm
Even though a cursory google of the topic will have many, many articles supporting what you and I know to be the case, there are others with some influencial opinion that would argue differently. You and I may disagree with them, but the perception and justification for the contrary is out there and it adds legitimacy to those groups.
Etude.
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flipper
ETUDE- Whatever. Carry on
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OnTheWayOut
Etude, hello
If some want to say that all religions or virtually all religions are cults, and if someone else wants to say that none of them are, fine. They are arguing over terms. We do that.
I know that Watchtower attempts to control the things that Steve Hassan identified as BITE: behaviour, information, thoughts, emotions. Do most churches do that- it is arguable and I am not going to defend actual mainstream churches.
But one thing is clear: Watchtower does it to such a degree that it is a DANGEROUS mind-control cult. Call it a high-control group if you want to, or call it a mainstream religion if you want to, but watch out for its danger.
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Etude
onTheWayOut:
but watch out for its danger.
Your are absolutely right. All I need is my own personal experience to realize how dangerous and insidious the WTBTS is. I don't want to call them a “mainstream” religion. I want to call them a cult. The problem is that other opinions that count don't do it for several persuasive reasons. While that may appear to simply be arguing over terms, the classification has its implications out there in the world and it adds legitimacy to these heinous groups. I'd call them every name in the book that would convey the danger and damage they create, plus a few other choice words. That doesn't advance my desire to change minds if I hear in the media that the WTBTS is a mainstream religion. I guess it's time for me to stick a fork in this conversation.
Thanks everybody for you input.
Etude. -
dissed
The JW's get real upset when reffered to as a Cult, just as the Mormons do.
When I first came to this site, I heard many make that claim and didn't think it applied to them. Now I do. They are dangerous, very dangerous, and try hard to control every thought of its members to keep them in line.
