For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense" (page 5)

leavingwt

Perry -- You chose Jesus? Now, you're just trying to rile DD up.

Perry

I believe he chose me first, and then through the agency of evil, brought me to a place where I would choose him. The election of God and "whosoever" are both in play here.

Perry -- Calvinists are certain on this issue. You are filthy and disgusting in God's eyes. You are totally depraved and incapable of ever choosing Jesus. Nothing that you have ever done, none of your conscious decisions or actions have anything to do with your being chosen by God. Rather, you won the cosmic lottery! God chose you! You don't have to burn forever!

Unlike God, I don't find you disgusting or unworthy. I think your life has real value.

AK - Jeff

The definition of logic is a sound premise[s] supporting a sound conclusion.

Christianity has none of the elements of logical argumentation, as Terry has so well pointed out. Terry seems to have bowed out wisely. I tried this once myself with this goofball. It's like arguing with my five year old grandson about the merits of eating candy - "I want it, so therefore anything I can say to tell you I should have it is ok." It may not be his fault though - his brain has been unfairly tainted with ideology that substitutes circular reason, straw men, and avoidance for logical argumentation.

Of course the keywords for religion is 'faith' or 'belief'- that throws logic, common sense, respect for structured argument to the wind to begin with, doesn't it?

Jeff

Perry

If I have told a lie, that makes me a liar does it not? If I have ever stolen, that makes me a theif does it not? I do believe in total depravity, however that doesn't mean that through a series of circumstances and initiatives of God, that he can't bring me to a place of surrender.

Jeff,

Terry seems to have bowed out wisely.

Naaah, he's just playing with his Ambio-Genesis Chemistry Set he got for Christmas. He'll be back. I have faith.

I tried this once myself with this goofball.

Yes, I am a goofball for Christ. Whose goofball are you?

designs

DD, Perry-

Would you guys decide which place I'm going, do I need to dress in Asbestos suit class A or class B

Deputy Dog

Perry

DD,

Don't you mean to say that Hell is real and the Lake of Fire is eternal?

I think I did say that.

The words (Tartaros, Gehenna, Hades, Sheol) translated to English as "hell" and the "Lake of Fire" are all expressions of "God's Wrath" are they not? If not, which do not represent "God's Wrath"?

Deputy Dog

leaving

This belief, coupled with Calvinism, means that billions of humans were Predestined to be born into this world and then spend all eternity suffering imaginable horrors. Moreover, during their short time on Earth, nothing they could have done could have prevented this outcome.

You mean there's nothing they wanted to do to prevent it. It's not like they want to do anything about it, ...do they? Is there someone who wants to believe but can't?

There's nothing I did or could do that can prevent it from happening to me. Thank God for the gift faith.

It's so refreshing. It's like the jumbo box of Junior Mints.

I take this to mean you don't want to believe?

Perry -- You chose Jesus? Now, you're just trying to rile DD up.

That's cute. LOL Now you did it.

Perry

I can't speak for DD but, yes I believe the reprobate are known who they are in advance just as the elect are. This does not mean that we don't have freedom of choice though. It just means that God is the "King of Eternity", since he can see at any point on the spectrum of time.

Not only can he see it, if he is King he "knows" because he determines it.

Perry

Not only can he see it, if he is King he "knows" because he determines it.

Yes, I agree. Who can resist the calling of God? I tried believe me, and I lost. But we also choose. The Word lays claim to both.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that
is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17)

I am a "whosoever".

leavingwt

DD: Those who don't want it, are those who don't want it because has not created this desire within them. How could someone who is totally depraved want something holy, righteous and good? IF it were God's will that these persons choose him, then they most certainly would, when he caused them to do so.

For Terry - So That it Will "Make Sense"

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