Miseryloveselders, I have to ask the obvious question....
I'm gonna get ready to hit the sack. I have to lead the group tommorrow.
How do you sleep at night?
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper 269 Replies latest jw friends
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Quillsky
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flipper
QUILLSKY- Maybe Miseryloveselders is trying to accomplish what a good number of non-believing witnesses have done here on the board- try to get your JW relatives OUT of the cult from the inside out ! It doesn't work for many of us- but I've known some who still attend meetings while trying to help relatives exit the JW cult. I think it takes a certain type of person to do that. Personally- I couldn't do it- but if others can while still being successful in dropping off hints to get JW relatives to escape WTville- who am I to judge ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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booby
It is amazing that Jehovah only just now figured out exactly what he was directing his bible writers to write down by holy spirit. Thank goodness his mind was jogged in time to cause his modern day governing body to drop the incorrect notions they were insisting each and every witness accept for so long now. Again in these last days He, through the guidance of his holy spirit has been able to direct towards a proper understanding. As EGNOG pointed out a loving and progressive understanding.
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Quillsky
QUILLSKY- Maybe Miseryloveselders is trying to accomplish what a good number of non-believing witnesses have done here on the board- try to get your JW relatives OUT of the cult from the inside out ! It doesn't work for many of us- but I've known some who still attend meetings while trying to help relatives exit the JW cult. I think it takes a certain type of person to do that. Personally- I couldn't do it- but if others can while still being successful in dropping off hints to get JW relatives to escape WTville- who am I to judge ? Peace out, Mr. Flipper
I know what you're saying, and I do get that not everyone can just leave, with their family remaining in. There's something to be said for keeping doubts to yourself and going through the motions of meeting attendance, perhaps handling microphones and so on, for a while.
I even understand someone remaining an elder for a limited period in order to provide enlightened non-cultish lifestyle counselling, possibly leading the way in making the elder body more empathetic and less dogmatic.
But to actually lead a group (I'm assuming service group here) - "encouraging" other people to go out in service and try to recruit others into the org? While he knows it's all bullsh!t?
I just don't know how he sleeps peacefully at night. I feel bad for those poor people, non-family congregation members, vulnerable people who actually feel "strengthened" by this.
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daringhart13
Are you kidding?
I love my family more than anything.....and they me....
.....but even they admit they would have a tough time explaining the difference between Moses and Noah.....much less this science fiction.
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flipper
BOOBY- LOL ! Yeah, I think God or Jehovah has been dropping many " incorrect notions " to the governing body for quite some time now ! Well put.
QUILLSKY- I hear you. I've known some who tried staying in for awhile to drop off hints and string it out for family- but after awhile it's exhausting to them. I'm sure that Misery does feel a twinge within him if he conducts meetings for field service. I don't know how he does it- I'd have a hard time doing it. I feel badly for these witnesses as well- having to deal with all the mind control crap. It's sick.
DARINGHART13- Yes, I feel that many of our JW relatives really can't xplain this new " generation overlap " theory- because they really don't understand it themselves. I love my JW family too- but I won't share in their mind control
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djeggnog
@flipper:
I think you've perhaps spiked your eggnog with pretty stout whiskey my friend !
I realize this to be an attempt on your part to employ a bit of levity, but this is like telling someone that you think they are "off their meds." It's not kind.
Trying to say that the WT society has the RIGHT to change definitions of what a generation REALLY is - is like saying that cows really jumped over the moon , that it was real.
What did you read? I didn't say a thing about the WTS asserting some "right" to change the definitions of words, whether it be "generation" or any other word for that matter. I was making the point that based on the fact that it's been "almost 100 years [that] have passed since 1914, we now know that Jesus could not have had in mind a 20- or 23-year generation, so we can now infer that Jesus was referring to a period of time as a 'generation.'"
International Astronomical Union (IAU) is an organization that voted almost four years ago to remove Pluto from our planetary system, to strip its "planet" status and classify it as a dwarf planet. I say this just to ask you not to speak as if you were a fool, because as clever as you are in your post to tell me how "regressive" you believe the WTS' understanding of what Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 (as to the meaning of "this generation") to be, and to tell me just how "duped" you believe me to be for my embracing what you believe to be a "misleading" definition for what constitutes a "generation," you cannot possibly think that such condescension on your part is warranted, considering the vast number of dedicated but former Jehovah's Witnesses there are in the world, some of which are even participants in this thread, that used to know Jehovah, but have since forgotten Him and become ungodly antichristians not appreciative of sacred things, who are defiling the flesh, while disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones, and who are deceiving themselves into believing that the contempt they have exhibited for those whom the holy spirit has appointed to positions of oversight in the congregations of God is going to be overlooked by Jesus, who was appointed as head of the body by Jehovah. (1 Peter 4:18; Hebrews 12:16; Jude 8; Acts 20:28; Colossians 1:18-20)
In ANY dictionary it will tell you that a generation lasts 20 to 30 years or so- from the time we are born until we start having children ourselves. Jesus did NOT say " These generations " will not pass away- he said " this generation " in the singular- NOT plural. So you are gravely mistaken in misinterpreting and going along being duped by the WT society's misleading definitions describing what constitutes a " generation ".
If I were to ask you today -- August 17, 2010, how many planets there are in our solar system, you should know that you'd be wrong to answer "nine," in view of the fact that on August 24, 2006, the IAU membership in Prague voted and decided that Pluto should no longer be considered a planet, even though in the past everyone in the world believed and were being taught in schools that there our solar system consisted of nine planets after the discovery of Pluto on February 18, 1930, by Clyde Tombaugh. So from February 18, 1930, through August 24, 2006 -- some 76 years -- the phrase "planets in our planetary system" meant, Mars, Venus, Earth, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto ("My Very Educated Mother Just Sent Us Nine Pizzas"), and no one accused Tombaugh of 'making up definitions.'
You stated that "The beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses are progressive, and have never been static." Oh really ? To me it sounds like with this new generation " theory " their beliefs are REGRESSIVE or going backwards, backpedaling to cover the WT society's unfulfilled expectations to keep people hooked into their con game longer.
No one has yet accused the IAU of being "regressive" or of "backpedaling" since the world had recognized only eight planets before 1930, and now we no longer understand the phrase "planets in our planetary system" or "planets in our solar system" to mean nine planets, do we? Now were someone to use either of these phrases, we would understand them to mean eight planets, Mars, Venus, Earth, Mercury, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune ("My Very Elderly Mother Just Sits Up Nights" ), wouldn't we?
And how do the dictionaries that were published before August 24, 2006, define "planets"? What about the ones published before February 18, 1930? It seems the world changes definitions of the words it uses, too, when a reason to do so emerges, and this causes more books to be published containing updated definitions for the words it defines differently than how they were defined beforehand. Why I still have a dictionary that doesn't include "homosexual" as one of the definitions for "gay," so the meaning of some of the words used in the English lexicon do evolve over time.
When I read your jumbled up attempt at describing this " generation " theory- all I was hearing was STATIC. I think you are being duped and misled is all I'm telling you.
I indicated that God's organization is progressive and you jumped all over my comment because you wanted to disparage the governing body or the WTS or me or Jehovah's Witnesses generally? I don't know, but whatever your reason for making that crack and in spinning the word "static" into something that I didn't mean. Sure, if I was talking about the static that can often accompany audio from a microphone or maybe electromagnetic interference that can affect a television, ok, but I wasn't and you were thinking yourself to be clever, huh?
Static means inactive, stagnant, even changeless, like that viewpoint that many in Christendom in associating heaven with salvation. For Christendom to embrace the Bible teaching of an earthly salvation would be progressive. The viewpoint of the Roman Catholic Church in imposing to celibacy among its priests would be an example of a static and non-scriptural viewpoint in view of the fact that the apostle Peter was married (Matthew 8:14), and for the RCC to stop forbidding its priests to marry would be a progressive move on the part of the Church. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)
Most of the folks that call themselves Christians today have a static, church-on-Sunday faith whereas true Christians have a progressive faith, an active and living faith that is dynamic, aggressive and energetic.
In some respects, "dynamic" might be said to be a synonym for "progressive":
There are a few programming languages that are said to be static (like Pascal) and dynamic (like Perl), for in Pascal, one needs to define and declare the type for every variable one uses in their code, making the code less flexible and more difficult to effect changes, but in Perl one need no specify the type for the variables one uses, making the code more flexible and easier to effect changes.
A static IP address is one assigned by an ISP permanently for a broadband or cable subscriber. They can only be assigned to a single subscriber.
A dynamic IP address is one assigned by an ISP to more efficiently utilize their address space, as dynamic IPs may change from time to time, and when not in use can be reassigned to another computer user, as needed.
How it is we read the Bible has an effect upon our obtaining an accurate knowledge of it, for understanding. For example, it is apparent that after the slave class of the first century AD had all died, one generation of the slave class fed the domestics of the next generation. However, in the 1800s, spiritual food was being dispensed by the "slave" to the "domestics" that fed on the fundamental truths of the Bible through regular group study of the Bible. Does man have an immortal soul? Is there a heavenly hope and an earthly hope? How many are going to heaven? Is hell really as hot as some say? Where did you learn the answers to these questions, if not from Jehovah? (John 6:45)
A few more questions: Who are the "superior authorities"? Should Easter be observed by Christians? Was Jesus born on December 25? Did Jesus die on a cross? Is Jesus a part of a trinity? Should Christians be active participants in political and military affairs of their respective nations? Did Peter get two or three keys from Jesus? It is all of these things that many dedicated Witnesses of Jehovah came to learn, and even when they became former Jehovah's Witnesses, they continued to embrace many of these truths, and these truths were not static, but all progressive.
You think that I am "being duped and misled," but I have something to tell you: If you aren't putting faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ -- I don't even want to assume that you know what this means, so please ask! -- you are likely going to "die in your sins," for Jesus is the King of God's kingdom and as such, he is going to 'bring vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news.' (John 8:24; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10)
One other thing I want to tell you: You aren't clever, and whether you believe yourself to be smart or not, you're resisting the holy spirit, even grieving it, for having learned these things from Jehovah and yet intentionally not sharing with others what things you have learned over the years along with other Jehovah's Witnesses in the Christian ministry to which all of Jesus' followers were assigned, in order that folks might survive the great tribulation and become survivors of Armageddon, wasn't a very smart move on your part.
@djeggnog
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flipper
DJEGGNOG- O.K. My holiest of holy ones. Since you seem so intent on judging me and my motives ( as apparently you sit on God's right hand ) let me clarify something for you. I am clever. I am informed and have educated myself since exiting the Jehovah's Witness mind control cult. I am NOT grieving the holy spirit ( as you put it ) because Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT inspired by holy spirit. I intentionally have not attended meetings for almost 7 years because I disagree with the unjust policy's and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. Thus I will not falsely promise householders at the doors a promise of a paradise - when it isn't real.
And one question- How do YOU know Jesus didn't mean a 25 to 30 year period when he predicted a " generation wouldn't pass away " ? In 70 C.E. the fulfillment of his words came true when Jerusalem was destroyed- 37 years after he made that prediction. So it DID come within that generation. That was the ONLY fulfillment of his prediction. To say otherwise or claim you or other witnesses have divine inspiration to predict a longer time period is just plain stupid and makes a mockery of the English language usage of the word " generation ". It's also supremely arrogant thinking you've gt the time period figured out.
How in the world you stretch your argument comparing the International Astronomical Union with the Jehovah's Witness " generation " thingie is stretching a bit- you think ? Look - If you google or Wikopedia the Millerites - you will find that Charles Taze Russel wasn't anything special. He stole and evolved his " last days " and " Gentile Times " ideas from the Adventist church which predicted 1844 would be " the end ". This is nothing new. Mind control religious cults ( including Jehovah's Witnesses ) have been deceiving members with false promises of dates of an alleged "Armageddon" for years ! So here in the year 2010 - the WT society is just doing what ALL mind control cults have done for centuries - use false promises of " the end " or " Armageddon " to keep it's members under control through fear and guilt. You my friend are under that same control. You just don't realize it- as you are mind controlled to dismiss any doubt.
I am NOT mind controlled as I have broken free to allow my mind to think clearly and have access to information OUTSIDE the WT society's writings. You have not allowed yourself to do that- so your source of information is very limited - if not skewed from just one perspective that- the world outside of Jehovah's Witnesses is evil - and you are not because you're a witness. I feel sorry for you too my friend. Just open your mind up- there's a great big world of information out there waiting for you . So, yes- it has been a VERY smart move on my part to break free of the mind control of the WT society. Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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flipper
BTTT, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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Doubting Bro
I was making the point that based on the fact that it's been "almost 100 years [that] have passed since 1914, we now know that Jesus could not have had in mind a 20- or 23-year generation, so we can now infer that Jesus was referring to a period of time as a 'generation.'"
Or the simplier answer would be that since generation is such an easily understood word, then perhaps the 1914 date is the incorrect starting point and not this inaccurate definition of the word generation? Nah, because if that happened, the GB would be in the position of having to pick a new time for the last days to start and that would be much harder to pull off than what they came up with. What a second, haven't they done that before? Why yes, I believe 1874 was the first WTS date that was to be the beginning of the last days.
Your example about the definition of planets isn't a good comparison. Since when does the IAU order people shunned because they don't believe in their definition of planet? For that matter, when did the IAU claim to be spirit directed?
Didn't the WTS greive the holy spirit when they originally defined the generation as the ones who saw 1914, then changed it to the wicked living in the last days, then changed it to the annointed in the last days? I would think that Holy Spirit would have guided them correctly at least one of these times? Why would they be directed to proclaim something that wasn't accurate?