Is it unacceptable to stand up for Jehovah's Witnesses on a site called Jehovah's-Witness.net?

by THE GLADIATOR 150 Replies latest jw friends

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  steve2

  A huge influence on the way in which we communicate on this site is our (relative) anonymity. If the identities and addresses of all posters were known, the tone might be more restrained and there'd likely be less resort to provocative and judgemental statements about other's "motives" or "intentions".

  Obviously, there'd be real risks too, because anonymity also enables a level of safety necessary for people to feel free to communicate in the first place.

  But, I'm not surprised by how out of hand things can become on a site such as this. Every one has their story and not all of them are critical of the Watchtower Society.
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  Think About It

  I have only two main complaints about the WT religion- their death dealing no-blood transfusion dogma and their shunning treatment of former JWs.

  I guess I feel about the same way. Not that I claim to be religious anymore, but for me to side with religious beliefs I probably still accept some major JW beliefs. The blood doctrine & shunning are secondary iffy based doctrines that could easily be made "new light" that doesn't cause the harm they currently do. Blood transfussions can be made a conscience matter and DF'd people can have normal family relationships. The WTS needs to be more pro-active in assuring people that they are against pedophiles and change their policies to ensure children in the org and children at the FS doors are safe from pedophiles. The waiting for Amageddon, going out in FS, cult control over the flock, etc. doesn't really matter to me. Now, if someone ask me if it's the Truth or God's org, I'm telling them based on what I know that I don't think so.

  I like alot of JW people and several that regularly post here. The ones that antagonize the victims of child molestation need to just avoid the subject if they don't agree with the personal accounts.

  Think About It
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  leavingwt

  Not that I claim to be religious anymore, but for me to side with religious beliefs I probably still accept some major JW beliefs.

  Please elaborate. Anything beyond the Golden Rule?
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  TD

  CyberJesus,

  As someone who has participated here for about 9 years and H20 for about 5 years before that and Associated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform and some of the news groups even before that, I certainly agree with you that conversational tone was different 10 years ago. Discussion boards morph and change over time.

  More has changed than just the tone though. There is a document on logical fallacies on the internet that opens like this:

  "There is a lot of debate on the net. Unfortunately, much of it is of very low quality. The aim of this document is to explain the basics of logical reasoning, and hopefully improve the overall quality of debate."

  Quality discussion requires some basics from both sides:

  1. Understand when a conclusion follows from one or more premises and when it does not. Logical fallacies are not a matter of perception.

  2. Know your subject extremely well.

  3. Try to know a little bit about the person you're talking to as well. Do they have qualifications in this area? If so, what are they?

  4. Understand the opposing position. A cardinal rule of debate is that you must understand your opponent's position so well that you could argue it for them.

  5. Above all else, be honest. Both sides can make valid points in a discussion. When someone positively demonstrates via hard evidence (Mathematics, Authortative sources, etc.) that something is so, acknowledge it.

  The example I gave (i.e. 'Friend') had some very long and very spirited debates with Alan Feuerbacher, "Farkal", and several others including myself. Not everyone agreed with him, but he gained a great deal of respect because he understood these basics very well.
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  THE GLADIATOR

  There seems to be a concensus that it is OK to support the views of JWs provided it is done in a reasonable and polite way. Sensitive subjects and people who are emotionally damaged should approached with empathy.

  Some are genuine others are just seeking attention, but we can never know with absolute certainty how genuine anyone is, including the people who come here looking for sympathy.

  Why do we not show this consideration to all emotionally damaged people, regardless of the bizarre beliefs they hold?
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  Twitch

  People who call for banning BANE or ALICE or whatever are uncomfortable having someone who doesnt agree with them near them. If we had only people who agree with us there would be no growth. We would be stagnant. it is thanks to the fact that we have such diversity that we have the opportunity to correct our points of view everyday.

  BANE and ALICE and any other "troll" dont shun you. They are one of the few JWS who actually are willing to speak with you. And I think that is fantastic! I would invite them over for dinner. I dont want them out of this forum at all.

  I have no issue with JW apologists here who wish to debate their subject. Personally, I have no interest in debate of scripture or doctrine; it never interested me and I've nothing to prove or gain by it. I do see the need and understand why others do so however and vicariously enjoy a good reparte no matter the subject. And I see the value of having a well rounded discussion with proponents of both sides debating the various issues re JW history, doctrine and current events. Growth is not possible otherwise.

  I do have issue with aforementioned "trolls" posting what amounts to sensationalistic, insensitive and downright ignorant posts masquerading as honest debate. Let the record show both of these had/have no interest in hearing any other side other than their own, vehemently deny any evidence contrary to their argument and quite often ignore the posts and questions that would lead to any admission of wrong on their or the orgs part. They are not here for honest discussion and understanding but rather to disrupt, antagonize and mock anyone they can, for no other reason than to inflate their ego or validate their own fantasy of self importance or persecution. Both insult the people and forum itself yet refuse to leave and instead continue on in their rail against reason and fair play. If you value this kind of poster and person, knock yourself out. My experience in the "world" is that such people are poison and leech one's positivity and good will for the rest of humanity. I have no time or understanding for these kind and though they serve a limited purpose as an example of what a hardcore JW wannabe can be like, I daresay it's not worth the price paid by honest, decent people who take their insults and denials personally and who need the support and understanding this forum provides. Many people have gone thru hell to arrive on the virtual shores of this site and the last thing they need is some a$$hole troll poking them in the eye.

  When the student is ready, the master will appear but I don't think I'm the only one that thinks both of these trolls care not for understanding or learning here.
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  cyberjesus

  moshe: they are not suicide bombers, they are suicide patients, suicide concience objectors. suicide victims.
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  moshe

  suicide patients, suicide concience objectors. suicide victims.

  Unfortunately, you're right.
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  cyberjesus

  I do have issue with aforementioned "trolls" posting what amounts to sensationalistic, insensitive and downright ignorant posts masquerading as honest debate

  That is fine, we all have issues with something.

  Let the record show both of these had/have no interest in hearing any other side other than their own, vehemently deny any evidence contrary to their argument and quite often ignore the posts and questions that would lead to any admission of wrong on their or the orgs part.

  Oh and do you know of any JW who is? They dont. That why they are JWs, they cant reason or hear, they believe they are right so no matter what you tell them they wont admit it. IF you try to reason with a JW you WILL waste your time. They can only come to their conclusions on their own. And in no other way. We cant post a reply for them to understand but for other who are lurking to see from a third person point of view the discussion and those are the ones who have the possibility to wake up and reason and understand.

  Both insult the people and forum itself yet refuse to leave and instead continue on in their rail against reason and fair play. If you value this kind of poster and person, knock yourself out. My experience in the "world" is that such people are poison and leech one's positivity and good will for the rest of humanity.

  Ouch! I do value that kind of poster. they are just like my Dad, my Mom, My sister, My brother in law, 40 of my cousins, 25 of my uncles. and many many ex-friends. They are belong to a mind controlled cult named Jehovah's Witnesses and they believe the have the one and only "truth" their brains are brainwashed by some stupid concept. My experience in the world is that such people are just like you and me. Human beings that deserve love and understanding. I wish that when I was a Jdub Someone had showed me the love and compassion as the one showed by many here in this forum. Where is the good will if WE the ones not brainwashed not show it to the ones still in.

  Many people have gone thru hell to arrive on the virtual shores of this site and the last thing they need is some a$$hole troll poking them in the eye.

  You dont have children, do you? oh I am just assuming :-)

  I daresay it's not worth the price paid by honest, decent people who take their insults and denials personally and who need the support and understanding this forum provides.

  So if a JW calls you unreasonable do you really get offended? What if they call you close minded? What if they tell you you are wrong? does it hurt? Really? What if they tell you "you freaking apostate you are gonna die in Armageddon and the crows are gonna eat your eyes and your children? do you get upset?

  YEs many here need support, I did at one point. But guess what even the most hurt of the X-JW is in better position than ALL of the members of the GB together! They are still in and Thank GOD we are out!

  When the student is ready, the master will appear but I don't think I'm the only one that thinks both of these trolls care not for understanding or learning here

  Exactly, they are not students, they think they are the masters. I am sure you are not the only one that thinks the way you do. But hey you can think anyway you want to and I will defend your right to do so!
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  cyberjesus

  TD: I agree with you. Let me ask you, do you think that posters like "Friend" was different because HE was different? This website has helped me change my mind opinions and reasoning tremendously. And I think that as it progresses the poster who are ready to learn will advance faster and will be able to debate in a better manner. The problem is IMO that JWs reasoning abilities dont progress, they are the same way they were 30 years ago. They dont move forward, so when they leave the BORG they are gonna come here just with a mentality of a JW. I think that is a phenomenom that will continue for a very long time, unless the JWs change theway they reason, but that is almost impossible. Thats why they are JWs :-)

  Thanks for your reply