by UnDisfellowshipped 457 Replies latest watchtower bible
Hebrews chapters 7-10, 12-13 tell us that Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant than the imperfect law covenant with Moses, made on better promises.
The law covenant required continual sacrifices of animals, the blood of which never completely atoned for sins but had to be constantly repeated.
Christ, the mediator of the ultimate covenant, made one sacrifice for sins which actually atoned for sins.
Hebrews 8:6 : "But Jesus has now obtained a superior ministry, and to that degree He is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been legally enacted on better promises." (CSB) I'm not seeing anything in Hebrews about Jesus being a "better" Mediator, or the need for such. Strictly speaking about his Mediatorship, the only thing I could think of that would be "better" is that Christ will live for eternity to ensure legal compliance with the new covenant.
Ding : Are you confusing Jesus' role as a Mediator with his role as High Priest?
Are you confusing Jesus' role as a Mediator with his role as High Priest?
They are one and the same.
My question though, was how that differs from being created, in terms of not having existence, and then existing at some point in time. This may be an impossible question to answer.
As I mentioned before, the bible talks on several occasions about Jesus being Creator, not being created. Sure, Jesus became flesh, and was born but He existed before that. Try this chapter Hebrews 1
If Jesus is begotten of God, wouldn't that mean that at some point in the past, he was unexisting?
Not necessarily. We know Jesus already existed before He was begottern of God, see the ve
And yes, Jesus atoned for the entire sin of the world. Yet, (again from a WT view), what was lost was a perfect Man in Adam. Thus, Jesus, being equally a perfect man, could provide an exact replacement for Adam. No?
In a legal sense, wouldn't each party of the covenant (God & Humanity) need to be represented equally by an impartial party, who ensures both sides fulfil the terms of the covenant? Like a mediator? How could the covenant be mediated if one party was the same as the mediator?
These verses explain who Jesus was and what He became to come and mediate for us.
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Coming from a WT perspective, how would a perfect Man not be able to fulfil the requirements of a sinless life, to atone for Adam's life? Why does it need to be a God-man?
Because all who are in Adam sin.
17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
djeg-
'you must know that Judaism is dead for all eternity'.........you 'Christians' have been trying to kill off the family for centuries, but we're still hanging in there thank you very much.
'and so is Adam' sniff sniff, you mean Gramps didn't make it to Paradise.
'broad and spacious the road leading to destruction and many..., cramped and narrow the road leading to life and few' Jesus. Now Judaism teaches just the opposite, all humans will be reformed and enter Gan Eden. I wonder if this Jesus character was going to Sabbath enough, must have missed a lesson here and there.
'Jesus already existed before he was begotten of God'..................theology is fun.
f Jesus is begotten of God, wouldn't that mean that at some point in the past, he was unexisting? If Jesus has the same nature as God, I would think that would include immortality. Yet, Jesus did not receive immortality until after his resurrection. How can this be?
There was no "time" untill the universe was created and it was created through Jesus.
Jesus is not immortal, like God he is eternal (outside time).
And yes, Jesus atoned for the entire sin of the world. Yet, (again from a WT view), what was lost was a perfect Man in Adam. Thus, Jesus, being equally a perfect man, could provide an exact replacement for Adam. No?
The atonment can, perhaps, be best understood this way:
There is nothing that man can do to warrant salvation since Man chooses to be apart from God (sin), so since there was no way for us to get "up there", God did something that is truly awesome, God can "down to us" through His Divine Word, personified in Jesus and with his death, the gift of Grace was given to all.
Or: "Adam" ( being symbolic for MAN) choose to "burn the path to God" ( a choice that remains in US) so God's only begotten son created a new path with his Blood and Flesh.
Only Jesus could do this because only Jesus is the Word of God, God's creating force.
How could any "man" do this? how could any "angel" do this?
How could anyone other than the Word of God offer Grace and forgiveness to Man?
In Judaism the Catholic/Protestant idea of original sin doesn't quite exist. Rabbi Eleazar ben Arach wrote- Whether they are righteous or sinners all people are children of God...in the Torah they are sometimes referred to as foolish children and sometimes as unfaithful children or wicked children but they are called children of God nontheless. The Jewish Sage Jesus paraphrased the Talmud where it says- Let sin, not sinners disappear from the earth.
Like Jesus, Rabbi Arach saved a jewish woman's life, a prostitute, only he bought her freedom and married her.
GOrwellIn a legal sense, wouldn't each party of the covenant (God & Humanity) need to be represented equally by an impartial party, who ensures both sides fulfil the terms of the covenant? Like a mediator? How could the covenant be mediated if one party was the same as the mediator?
I was reading Colossians this morning and I was remind of your question.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were createdthrough him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
Jesus is God, Creator and yet Mediator for all who come to Him. Note verse, 20! :)
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
In Judaism Paradise was filling up prior to Jesus, Adam sits at the gates of Paradise welcoming all his children home, even Jesus ben Joshua acknowledged Abraham, Moses and Ezekiel where in the great beyond.
What makes the story of Jesus ben Joshua queer is his ( or really some Bishops imposed view ) of eternal torment for the wicked. That's not a Jewish belief. Jewish belief is that all humans are children of God and can be rehabilitated. In the Jewish Faith a good deed or a person's ability to do good is only a thought away. The power of the God given mind.
Jesus ben Joseph, that's what happens on only of coffee
Have you Catholics, Protestants, Fundamentalists seen the pictures of the giant statue of 'Jesus Christ' going on display in Poland. Comments please- what do you think of the facial features, are they of a Jewish man in the 1st century or a northern European. How about in your current Church, what type of face is featured.
