You Can't Have Purpose Without Intelligence, And?

by D wiltshire 46 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Abaddon

  D wiltshire; You like slogans don't you? However, both the one you start this thread with and the one you sign your posts with, are to me, pretty devoid of meaning.

  Just because it sounds good, doesn't mean it means anything.

  Your slogans are, to use Clash's terminology, presuppositionalist.

  Your signature makes the assumption there is a god, and he must be way cleverer than us, and therefore, if it doesn't make sense, it's our fault.

  The slogan you started this thread with begs the question by clearly statinting the implicit answer that is expected, but doesn't actually SAY anything, and is based upon a similar set of presuppositions.

  You are free to like them; I think they're weak. If you wanna convince people about god, try facts.

  All the best.

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
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  D wiltshire

  AB,

  How they hangin dude?

  Hey man, you got your slick, and I've got mine, what can I say?

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  JanH

  RWC,

  You were correct when you said that natural selection does not explain the origins of life. I hold to the believe of an intelligent designer. Because without it, how can you explain the development of rational thought?

  Don't you see that a "designer" will not explain the origin of rational thought at all? It just pushes the question from the physical, known universe, into a postulated supernatural realm we know nothing about. It doesn't "explain" anything, it simply dodges the question.

  - Jan
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  patio34

  Hi DWiltshire,

  Sorry, i can't do the quote thing with webtv, but you stated something like how did the ants get these good instincts by a series of purposeless accidents or was intelligence behind it.

  As i understand the evolutionary process, the ants that did not have good instincts did not survive and reproduce. Therefore, the descendants of the survivors inherited the genes for the better instincts.

  Actually, everything today is the product of the best survivors' genes so we can be glad.

  Pat

  "It's easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." (from "Stuart Saves His Family")
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  D wiltshire

  patio34,
  Hi,
  

  stated something like how did the ants get these good instincts by a series of purposeless accidents or was intelligence behind it.
  As i understand the evolutionary process, the ants that did not have good instincts did not survive and reproduce. Therefore, the descendants of the survivors inherited the genes for the better instincts.
  Actually, everything today is the product of the best survivors' genes so we can be glad.

  That's one threory. There are others.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  Seeker

  D Wiltshire,

  Copy of title of thread:: You Can't Have Purpose Without Intelligence...
  So the ants do have a purpose and they do have intelligence. True they don't have a complete understanding of what they do or why they do it.

  And thus there is an example of a purpose being carried out without intelligence being directed toward that purpose's fulfillment. And that was the intent of the premise, even if it wasn't spelled out, or else the premise becomes meaningless. It would then be like saying, I have purpose and you have intelligence, and thus that counts.

  I'm fascinated to see your (or anyone else's) reponse to simple-celled organisms, which have NO thought, no intelligence, and yet have the purpose of survival.
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  Seeker

  That's one threory. There are others.

  I see you don't accept evolution as much as you said.
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  JanH

  Like most faulty slogans, this one relies on subtle differences in how words are defined. It mixes up "purpose" and "effect." Sometimes we use the word "purpose" when we mean intended effect. But intentions are something only intelligent beings can have. Yet, we also use "purpose", and then we understand we are using a metaphor, to mean the effect of a specific functionality. Obviously, simple one celled organisms do not have intellgence. They are automatons. Virus are even simpler, actually just molecules that work on the genes in living things. Whether such things have a "purpose" simply relies on how you use the word.

  - Jan
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  D wiltshire

  Seeker,
  I think the whole quote is clearer:

  Copy of title of thread:: You Can't Have Purpose Without Intelligence...
  So the ants do have a purpose and they do have intelligence. True they don't have a complete understanding of what they do or why they do it. We humans are the same in that respect. Do you want so examples?

  Important to note humans do it too.

  I see you don't accept evolution as much as you said.

  How much did I say?

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  Seeker

  You said, "I think evolution is probably true," and then you used the tired "theory" argument against it. Oh sure, you wrote in such generalities you can give plausible deniability to whatever I say now. You can point out that you said the way ants developed is one theory, and thus you believe it. But you said there are other theories for that explanation, even though I know of none that are scientifically credible.

  And now you are quibbling over what your original premise meant. Since I can't read your mind, I went with what you wrote. Clearly I misunderstood what you intended, and since we are getting nowhere with these word games, I'll leave you in peace on this subject.