Okay, Someone "Enlighten" Me, Please...

by AGuest 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ESTEE

  My apologies...I stand corrected, thank you. Apparently, AGuest is out of the jws.

  I could not tell, so sorry.

  Gone dancin'... now learning Argenine Tango.

  But having absolutely no-o-o-o-o joy in it...NOT!!!

  ESTEE
• 

  tec

  Shelby - (thank you a few times now)

  Just wanted to add my thoughts on something:

  I am here because I was sent, as a servant, to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with. To share what I hear from my Lord...

  For those who believe, or even consider the possibility, I thought this was quite a powerful statement - more so the meaning behind it.

  Tammy
• 

  carvin

  A Guest, I can see where you are comming from and it is a fair question with thoughtful analysis. What you are witnissing(sorry for that term) is just human nature. Do not many people act the same way when they feel betrayed in any relationship? You marrage mate or long time partner betrays you, your job keeps promissing you a position and then give it to someone else, your country tells you one thing then does another and in the process injures/kills many people. You feel betrayed, and then all those "symptoms" you mentioned show. With the WT we were all betrayed and continue to be so, and we see our family and friends, as well as many new victoms being betrayed as well so we still show our emotions. While we were in the WT I'm sure most of us if not all of us have felt or know people who have felt angry, sad, resentful, all the thing you described, the only difference is that when we were in we had to hide these feeling/emotions. We had to hide them so as not to be attacked by those loving, caring sheppards who put us in that position in the first place. now that we are out we can let it out.

  It's like when you first start "studying" you are learning thing new to you and they even tell you you will want to tell everyone you know. They give a scripture about a spring bubbling fourth everything you are being taught. Well that is where we are at, although at different stages, we are wanting to tell everyone we know about the real WT, as well as all the harm they cause.

  Thanks
• 

  PSacramento

  I think that the more zelous a person was in the Organization, the more there zeal is turned against it when they leave, butnot just IT in the sense of the direct Organization but for many, ALL other such organizations.

  A rightly so some would say.

  People who were very zealous need to redirect that zeal, unfortunatley they don't realize or can't realize that it was that very zeal that was the problem to begin with.
• 

  keyser soze

  People who leave the WT often feel a certain level of anger and bitterness towards it, and use this forum as an outlet. It doesn't mean they feel anger and bitterness in all phases of their life. Most people are able to disconnect from it. I don't spend my day at work, or elsewhere, stewing about all the ways I was wronged by the WT.
• 

  AGuest

  A Guest, I can see where you are comming from and it is a fair question with thoughtful analysis. What you are witnissing(sorry for that term) is just human nature.

  I agree, dear Carvin (peace to you!). But I guess my question would be, isn't THEIR conduct, etc., ALSO "human nature"?

  Do not many people act the same way when they feel betrayed in any relationship? You marrage mate or long time partner betrays you, your job keeps promissing you a position and then give it to someone else, your country tells you one thing then does another and in the process injures/kills many people. You feel betrayed, and then all those "symptoms" you mentioned show.

  I absolutely agree. But my question is not about that. It is about whether, if I want people to think that MY "way" is BETTER than THEIR "way"... should I exhibit the exact same emotions, conduct, anger, hatred (for those not "like" me), etc., as "they" do, and if so, why would they want to bother to change over? Why wouldn't they want to stay where they are?

  With the WT we were all betrayed and continue to be so, and we see our family and friends, as well as many new victoms being betrayed as well so we still show our emotions. While we were in the WT I'm sure most of us if not all of us have felt or know people who have felt angry, sad, resentful, all the thing you described, the only difference is that when we were in we had to hide these feeling/emotions.

  I am not sure that we "had" to as much as we "thought" we "had" to... and/or "chose" to, but I understand what you're saying...

  We had to hide them so as not to be attacked by those loving, caring sheppards who put us in that position in the first place.

  Yes, I see... and agree...

  now that we are out we can let it out.

  Indeed. But upon WHOM? The folks who are/were subject to the same thing, even if they're not yet able to see/willing to admit it? Or upon those who put it upon you, most of whom aren't here? I mean, if you WANT those who come here to SEE what you see... why continue to show them what THEY show them? What is the DIFFERENCE?

  It's like when you first start "studying" you are learning thing new to you and they even tell you you will want to tell everyone you know. They give a scripture about a spring bubbling fourth everything you are being taught. Well that is where we are at, although at different stages, we are wanting to tell everyone we know about the real WT, as well as all the harm they cause.

  I understand, dear Carvin, for those who've just come out... or perhaps in the last 5 years or so. I am directing my questions to such ones, as I have stated...

  Thanks

  You are quite welcome and thank YOU for commenting. Peace to you!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  AGuest

  Most people are able to disconnect from it.

  Yes, dear KS (peace to you!), I absolutely understand that. What I think some don't understand is who it is I am addressing: those who appear unable to do so. And that I am merely asking THEM how THEY expect... not only by hanging onto but to the extent they derive some kind of "joy" from DISPLAYING such anger and bitterness, even toward those who mean them NO harm... that anyone will even want to consider what it is they say THEY have "found"... whether it be "God"... or no God at all?

  And save dear a few who do NOT display such anger and bitterness (i.e., dear tec, Estee, Coffee Black, PSacto, Violia, etc. - peace to you all, and if I missed someone please forgive me!), I still don't believe I've received a rational response. And while references to the metaphores depicted in the Matrix are interesting fodder for discussion, they don't answer the question.

  I bid you peace, dear one!

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  keyser soze

  What I think some don't understand is who it is I am addressing: those who appear unable to do so.

  But that was my point AG(peace to you as well). They may appear unable to do so because of what they post here. It doesn't mean it's how they are in reality. For many, this is a place to vent and swap stories with people from similar backgrounds. Unless you know the ones you are addressing personally, outside of this venue, on what basis do you call them angry and bitter?
• 

  AGuest

  They may appear unable to do so because of what they post here. It doesn't mean it's how they are in reality. For many, this is a place to vent and swap stories with people from similar backgrounds. Unless you know the ones you are addressing personally, outside of this venue, on what basis do you call them angry and bitter?

  I think you still miss the point, dear KS (again, peace to you!). What they do AWAY from here wasn't the issue, but what they display HERE... while trying to convince those HERE... that what they have "found" is "better." Heck, JWs are all lovey-dovey amongst themselves, away from others. It's when they're dealing with people who AREN'T "like" them, who DON'T agree with them, that the REAL "person" tends to show himself/herself. Which is MY point.

  Again, peace to you!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  ESTEE

  Dear AGuest,

  Ahhh, dancing last night was most happifying!

  Again---my apologies for the earlier misunderstanding. Admittedly, I know very little about you, but I am really glad to hear that you have left the jws. Hearing about the great crowd of people leaving is always happifying news!I only hear this kind of news on this type of forum, as it is generally not considered newsworthy by the media.

  To claify ... when I "left" the organization I was constantly "testing" my new uncharted ground. I asked myself, "Does this activity feel healthy?" or "Does this new direction feel health-ier (comparatively) than what I did as a jw?" The answer was consistently, "Yes, this feels healthier."

  So, under those circumstances, why would I go back? Are you suggesting, "You should go back"? If not, what exactly are you suggesting? Where "should" I go? Because I don't do well with "shoulds." When I see the word I know that it indicates someone else's will, not necessarily mine. Sure, my kids shun me ... and going back would mean I would have them in my life again. But, I made myself a promise to make sure that I know my own mind and heart first, before making life-altering decisions. In this case, my decision was, "If I were to go back to be with my kids, I would feel manipulated. I would feel like I was living a lie." That promise still feels healthy, and I remain out. I figure that if I saw through the WT cracks, and I taught my kids everything I know, then one day they might see through the cracks and decide to exit. It must be their decision, though. I could not help them by being on the "inside." I'm sure they struggle with the issue, as I still do at times. The love connection is still there, I feel.

  For me, life is clearly better "out." For others who feel a need to go back, by all means do what works best for you. The only suggestion I would have about that is, just make sure you don't go back because of fear, but out of love. Fear is the opposite of love because, "Perfect love throws fear outside."---Bible

  Re-reading your thread I can see that you are somewhat "fundamental" in your Christianity. Is this thread your own "testimony"? I have a friend who is Mormon who uses that expression. That thought leads me to ask, "Are you here to convert us?"

  Most of us here prefer to use our own minds to make decisions that feel healthy for us. Most of us don't like to be told how we feel---"you cannot possibly be happy because you left the jws." Most of us are happy to know we left a cult. Most of us feel FREE. Most of us are wary of religion. Life is not all black and white. Most of us here are still deeply spiritual, even if we left the jws. In fact, maybe we left the cult confines because we are spiritual. I figure there is much spirit in dance and other creative endeavours---all emmensely worthwhile. All bring joy and happiness.

  People here have met and made friends. There are many happy people who fell in love, and had families here on this forum. That sounds like happy stuff to me. YOU?

  Here is a point to ponder, AGuest...what gives you pleasure and joy? You may wish to share, but do not feel obliged to answer. Nevertheless, you might want to give it some thought.

  Love,

  ESTEE