To new Christians on JWN

by brotherdan 284 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • tec
    tec

    No one can make you feel stupid or delusional unless you let them, Brotherdan. Terry has on occasion gotten under my skin with his diehard stance that believers cannot think rationally. (I also wanted to mention how nice it was, what you did on this thread, Terry) Others have made similar remarks, having the same sort of attitude toward what makes a believer believe.

    However...

    None of them have ever once made me feel stupid or delusional. Because I know I'm not. (well as much as anyone can know that they're not, anyway)

    Tammy

  • undercover
    undercover
    I have no idea how I come across on the board. But I'm just a regular guy that has fun at the bar with friends, and is up for anything. This isn't the only thing I talk about in RL.

    Aside from the belief issues, I've enjoyed your posts. I'd hang out with you in a bar... but leave God at the door, please.

    I come here to keep up with WT shit, 'cause I still got family in. And it's a good place to vent about it because we all understand. I rarely talk about WT/JWs or religion in general outside of here, unless I'm with fellow JWNers. I've left it behind for the most part but once in awhile I'll jump in on a thread just to put my two cents in. And sometimes I do it sarcastically, which sometimes does not come across very well. I can be an asshole, as my wife is wont to remind me.

  • tec
    tec

    UC - I believe that is a wifely duty. Its in our manual.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    I know I shouldn't let it affect me, but it's just the way I am. I'm not OUT like alot of you guys are. I've still got 1 foot that being crushed by the door. So while I have strong faith and can defend it, I also know that I know very little. My anchor can't be my own reasoning because it has been faulty for so long. My anchor has to be God's Word.

  • undercover
    undercover
    I believe that is a wifely duty. Its in our manual.

    I think she wrote it...

  • undercover
    undercover

    BD, I'm not "out-out" all the way myself. I'm completly inactive, never to return, but I have managed the long term fade. The downside to that is that I can't go around spouting my personal thoughts on just any-ole-thang at any-ole-time. And that may be why I'll jump on it so quickly here. I know I can say what I think, get into a debate, but not have to worry about the JW aspect of it.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    True. I guess that's the beauty of this board, right? We can have huge arguments and then walk away agreeing to disagree. Can't do that in the organization.

  • tec
    tec

    I know I shouldn't let it affect me, but it's just the way I am. I'm not OUT like alot of you guys are. I've still got 1 foot that being crushed by the door. So while I have strong faith and can defend it, I also know that I know very little. My anchor can't be my own reasoning because it has been faulty for so long. My anchor has to be God's Word.

    Then you do what you have to do to keep going and keep strong, Brotherdan. But take comfort in knowing that you will get to that point where you have NO feet being crushed by any door. I think you are a loving man, a little lost right now, but you have a light to follow and that's all you need. I will keep you in my prayers.

    Tammy

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia
    That being said, I through some Bible study the other night, I found what the Bible says about why people turn atheistic in their beliefs. This commentary is not meant to be insulting. It is merely what the Bible says on the issue. And I really do think it's insightful to what you new Christians to JWN may encounter here. Psalm 14:1 says "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one that does good." So WHY does the man say "there is no God"? The verse answers that they are corrupt. Verse 3 expounds on this and says, "All have turned aside" and "there is no one that does good." I really think this is why people buy into the atheistic philosophy.

    Okay, I'll comment on this. Virtually every commentator I've read, whether evangelical or secular, has observed that Psalm 14 discusses practical atheism and not theoretical, or philosophical, atheism, which simply did not exist in the ANE at the time this psalm was written. The idea in the declaration is that the wicked believe that God is not present and not watching what they do. So in ch. 10 when the wicked ones say to themselves "there is no God", this means: "God has forgotten, he has hidden his face, he will never see these things" (v. 4, 11). Hardly the same as philosophical atheism, which itself embraces different questions of ontology and epistemology ("there is no God", if read as pertaining to philosophical atheism, is an ontological claim, not an epistemological one). Now it is pretty easy to just apply the passage out of context to anyone who is philosophically atheist; after all, if one's atheism is philosophical, wouldn't it also be practical? But the society and worldview at the time when the psalm was written is very different from what we have today. The Torah was the law of the land and doing good deeds like honoring parents and doing deeds of charity and so forth obeyed the Law and, in turn, obeyed God; most ordinary Jews were not practical atheists but followed law and custom. If you look at the people described in ch. 10 and 14, it's those people who do harm who disregard flagrantly the prohibitions against destructive behavior towards others. These are people who "hotly pursue the afflicted" and "devise plots" (10:2), those who show avarice to others (v. 3-4), whose "mouth is full of curses and deceit and oppresion" (v. 7), those who "kill the innocent" (v. 8), who "lurk like a lion to catch the afflicted" (v. 9), those who do not ever do "what is good" (14:1, 3), who "devour people as if they were bread" (v. 4), who have "plans against the poor man" (v. 6), etc. These are people who do evil to others, for in a land ruled by the Law, a practical atheist would not love one's neighbor or care for others as the Torah instructs; conversely those who do works that do show love and care for others do in fact "do what is good" in contrast to those condemned in Psalm 10 and 14. Now today there is such a thing as philosophical atheism and our society is not under a theocratic law-code. People obey laws and give themselves to their communities and give their lives to help others regardless of what theistic beliefs they do or do not have. Psychopaths, sexual predators, cheats like Bernie Madoff, etc. are the kind of people that today say in their hearts "there is no God" in the same sense intended by the psalmist.

  • Hadit
    Hadit

    Brotherdan, I can see that you are a sincere individual. You are entitled to your thoughts and opinions just like we all are. On that note, I do believe you need to reread your own posts to see that many things that you are saying will be found as insulting and demeaning to many people here. Your post hit a nerve with me as coming across as elitist. We’ve just come out of an organization that is elitist and I’m done with judging people – using the Bible or not. I’m not saying that you are but it did come across that way. The plain statement that there needs to be more of a Christian presence here begs the question of why?(Not that it's a bad thing but neither is it bad that they are not) People have come here because they have been suppressed, repressed, asked to have faith, no – told they MUST have faith, they’ve been put in a box and TOLD what they can and cannot do. They have been judged, mistreated, beaten by words, self-esteem stripped from them. Abused physically and mentally by men who repeatedly say they love them and base their actions on God. People should be accepted for who they are NOT what they represent or believe. People come here to get away from labels and to be accepted for just being them. The conditional love that we have been through is enough for a lifetime.

    People grow, they mature, they change their views based on living and seeing and experiencing. It’s an ebb and flow of ideas and beliefs. We have not been allowed to do that! People need to find their own path. I am not against any belief system – we do what we can to survive. We are free to use our thinking abilities. It is NOT what we believe that makes us content or good people – it is what WE DO.

    You said: I know, from my experience, that I could not be content knowing that there was nothing beyond myself. And when the Bible says that there is contentment only in knowing God, I believe it. I find GREAT contentment in knowing God.

    You don’t want to believe you are alone and thus you look for justification to find that you are not. There is nothing wrong with wanting to believe something and looking for ways to support it. However, many others may feel the same BUT want the evidence of that rather than relying on their own wants or on faith. Just because I want and believe in something does not make it so.

    I myself don’t know what to believe right now – I WANT to believe in God and I want to believe that the Bible is God’s word and that we have some other great fantastic life after this. Fact is I don’t know. My wanting it doesn’t make it so. Nobody has all the answers.

    The Bible’s authenticity is a whole other topic. The Bible has been used for centuries to abuse and control; especially to control women. I have a real problem with the fact that it is in men’s hands and they say it is from God. They have done a LOT of damage. You would think that seeing all this abuse God would step in and make himself KNOWN to all. He apparently spoke thousands of years ago – why not now?

    All scripture is inspired of God . . . inspired as in God communicated it to them OR inspired by their own thoughts of God? Big difference. I wasn’t there to authenticate it. As for prophecy – I’m sure people have a problem with that because WE CANNOT for sure know when books were written. They can and have been tampered with.

    Sorry for the long winded post. I know your words are not meant to be cruel. You seem to be a loving and caring individual trying to find your own path and keep your faith in God your own way.

    The only way to find truth is to challenge what we already believe. If it’s true it will stand up.

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