Challenge to DJeggnog Regarding his Lies.

by Essan 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Heaven

  because you, like the OP (@Essan here), happen to be of the belief that "the invisible coming of Christ" is exactly the same as "the invisible presence of Christ," is that right?

  DJ... one must come or arrive BEFORE one can be present... at anything.

  If the WTS knows that Chuck did not predict the invisible coming of Christ in 1914, why don’t they correct this error among the R&F JW’s?

  The WTS will never correct or admit to any of their errors because this would invalidate their claims that they are being directed by God and hence, their sole reason for being God's Chosen and God's Organization and that only they will be saved. Their policy is to issue 'noo lite'. Once again, you should know this if you are truly a JW.
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  Essan

  Well, Isaac, both DJeggnog and Debator have been informed that:

  1. The original text of Russell's writing contained all the predictions I have quoted and referred to and many more besides for 1914. They show that he predicted Christ's "COMING" for 1914, while they claim he was "PRESENT" from 1874.

  2. Later printings of these writings deceptively edited out these failed predictions which had become an embarrassment.

  3. These original texts exist and can easily be checked, and this deceptive editing verified, even online where there are scans.

  4. I have provided a link to scans of the original text.

  So they really have no excuse for them peddling this lie any further. Their ignorance is willful, from now on at least. That is assuming that did not already know this, which, at least I Debators case, I seriously doubt.

  DJ you have all the evidence now at your disposal to learn the truth about what Russell actually predicted in his original writings- before the Society re-wrote history - if you continue ignoring this then you make yourself as much a liar as Debator. If you do this research - which is quite easy - you will learn that all that I said Russell predicted regarding 1914 was true and that you owe an apology and a retraction. You also owe yourself serious reflection on the significance of this deception by the Society - which you have fallen for hook line and sinker.

  You think what you read in your reprints and later editions is what Russell actually originally wrote. You're dead wrong.
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  isaacaustin

  Heaven,essentially, when pressed, the WT will admit that they had wrong expectations as far as exactly what would hapen in 1914 but that they were awake and watching for SOMETHING very special to happen in relation to God's kingdom. This would be as ridiculous as me stating on 1/1/08 that a nuclear war would come and destroy the US in 2008...and then to claim on 1/1/09 that my prophecy had come true...although I had wrong expectations as far as exactly what would happen (the US was not wiped out) SOMETHING very special did happen in the US- the first African American president was elected. That is basically the WT's claim.
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  isaacaustin

  Essan, very true. The org simply re-writes its history...changes definitions...etc.

  They claim the Gentile Times ended in 1914, but what did they define that as in the years leading up to 1914? And whose dates were these?
• 

  debator

  Isaac

  I answered you original point.

  Since you address the actual subject under dicussion finally! I will answer you.

  Since the topic directly relates to our undertsanding of prophetic bible Chronology from revelation, daniel etc why is it irrelevent?

  How can Russell claim in action yet not in word? That isn't even possible. A personal can only claim divine inspiration (the ability to speak words directly from Jehovah) in word because it is words we are literally talking about.

  What are we discussing here? (and this is to both you and Essan)

  That Witnesses had had to be refined continually on understanding concerning prophetic Bible Chronology? Refinement is unavoidable on prophecy (as I ealrier pointed out it is literally part of the process) since you looking for expression of bible chronology and signs in the world around us before and after it is fulfilled.

  What have the witnesses done that is wrong here? By my own research only what we have been told to! Which is use the bible to decern when these things happen?
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  Essan

  Debator, 2 things.

  1. Predict means "say beforehand". Russell said, for instance, before 1914 that "A. D. 1914; at the end of which, Babylon the great, will have fallen, and the "dragon" be bound: that is, the nations will be subdued, and "the prince of this world cast out."" Three Worlds and The Harvest of This World (1877) p.143"

  So, he predicted it. He said in 1877 that several things would happen in 1914. That's a prediction.

  2. Go away. Stop trying to muddy the waters and use this thread as a vehicle to peddle your lies. This thread isn't about whether Russell's predictions constitute 'Prophesy' or not, that's another issue. It's about facing what was actually said by Russell about 1914 before 1914. Buzz off. It's hard enough to get DJ to be concise and to comprehend and address the relevant points without your distractions, although I know you thrive on causing such confusion.
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  isaacaustin

  R-bator:

  Isaac

  I answered you original point.

  My reply:

  Not that I saw.

  -bator:

  Since you address the actual subject under dicussion finally! I will answer you.

  Since the topic directly relates to our undertsanding of prophetic bible Chronology from revelation, daniel etc why is it irrelevent?

  My reply:

  Whether we should try to understand prophecy or will have a perfect understanding is not relevant to whether or not CTR was a false prophet. CTR went well beyond that.

  -bator

  How can Russell claim in action yet not in word? That isn't even possible. A personal can only claim divine inspiration (the ability to speak words directly from Jehovah) in word because it is words we are literally talking about.

  My reply: Accepting the title of FDS and what it means is claiming to be God's chosen vessel of truth. However, that is also irrelevant and an over-omplication of Deut 18 which provides a very simply definition of a false prophet.

  r-bator:

  What are we discussing here? (and this is to both you and Essan)

  That Witnesses had had to be refined continually on understanding concerning prophetic Bible Chronology? Refinement is unavoidable on prophecy (as I ealrier pointed out it is literally part of the process) since you looking for expression of bible chronology and signs in the world around us before and after it is fulfilled.

  What have the witnesses done that is wrong here? By my own research only what we have been told to! Which is use the bible to decern when these things happen?

  My reply: Refined? Youmean damge-control when their false prophecies fail? Prophecies witnesses must accept and preach to remain part of the congregation.
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  debator

  Hi Essan

  You keep missing my point. I'm not debating whether he had those understandings or not concerning Bible prophecy. I'm failing to see what you consider he did wrong? There is nothing wrong with using prophetic bible chronology or written prophecy to decern fulfillment in fact we are commanded to use them.

  My next point is that it isn't a crime to make mistakes biblically especially if you show a willingness to keep being refined and set them straight. As an ongoing process it is inevitable that we will be continually refined and corrected on prophetic fulfillment. This is why we need the Bible so much.

  2 Timothy 3:16

  16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

  Where is the wrongdoing in what you keep pointing out?
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  Essan

  Debator, see my last post. Then please shut up. Go back to the "Who are the False Prophets Today" thread where your comments would be on topic. You are off topic here.
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  isaacaustin

  Essan, Reniaa used to do this all the time..hijack people's threads and go off-topic...even when asked to stop...and then claim persecution or ask what she did wrong.