The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer... (page 8)

notverylikely

Stuff like that.

Oh, well, then let's go :)

Bad

Brought flood, plagues

Allowed satan to corrupt his creation

allowed angels to breed with humans

changed languages of humans to cause confusion

dislocated jacob's hip for...fun?

hardned pharoh's heart in order to kill an army

killed caananites for no other reason that living in the land god wanted them to have

forced adult men to mutilate thier penises

forced subjucation of women

forced women to marry their rapists

showed no tolerance for disable and deformed persons by refusing them entry to priesthood

Ordered killing of children, women

Allowed slavery

allowed murder of slaves as long as they suffered for a day or two before they died

killed children for minor offenses such as making fun of man because he was bald

condoned human sacrifice

contradictory and confused written message

After condemning man to death for the actions of one, decided torting and letting is son be murdered instead would be better than forgiveness

allowed children to be killed by Herod in Jesus' stead

said he would return, had his inspired word predict quick return, 2000+ years later, still out for coffee

Good

Creation

Sustains life

Appointed, protected Savior's lineage

Written Message

Sent Savior to die in our stead

Resurrected Savior

Promise of future Coming

2 Corinthians 5:10 Sooner or later we'll all have to face God, regardless of our conditions. We will appear before Christ and take what's coming to us as a result of our actions, either good or bad. MSG

Tec, is this what you had in mind? Or was it Ezekiel 18?

NVL, we're all sinners by nature - we don't have to do anything - we simply have to be.

Syl

tec

Bohm, I don't understand what you just said. I'm trying to read it through again.

For the record, I never said an atheist blames God. Just that those who claim to be atheists and then show such anger and hatred toward God are either a) not really atheists, or b) really just angry at those people who do teach about God, rather than angry at God (who they don't believe exists).

If I'm wrong, then tell me what's wrong. I'm not trying to pick a fight.

Tammy

notverylikely

Hey syl, i read that. Yep, said he would make everything new, not that he would fix what was already here.

tec

Ezekial 18, Sylvia... thanks. The soul who sins is the soul who dies; the son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son.

For those who think this conflicts with punishments or whatever being handed down from generation to generation, I believe Ezekial 18 is speaking about an individual person... whereas the other ones are speaking about the natural consequences of a nation sinning. Those natural consequences (such as turning daughters to prostitutes and the results that come from that for generations) are what the children pay for - in this lifetime.

Tammy

bohm

tec - the problem is that the "atheists are angry at god" is a red herring i have herd a gazillion times.

An atheist who are angry at god is a moron like a christian who is angry at Zeus. It just dont compute. And there are properly plenty of atheists who are mad at christians like there are christians who are mad at atheists -- but its a complete and utter distraction to bring them in because hey, both groups are asshats and they are not you or I.

What i DO find interesting is that i have never heard an atheist talk about a supposed group of christians who are mad Jesus does not exist. To me, it smell about like some christians try to equate being an atheist with being mad at God -- ie. they try to deny atheists of rationality, and frame atheists as somewhat unstable, angry, pathetic people.

that reaks of dishonest debate technique. Thats why i object to it.

tec

What i DO find interesting is that i have never heard an atheist talk about a supposed group of christians who are mad Jesus does not exist

Ah... now I think I get what you were saying. But I don't think there are any Christians walking around saying how mad they are that Jesus does not exist. Nor do I think there are atheists walking around being mad that God doesn't exist.

But there are plenty of people who claim to be atheists who do talk about what a tyrant and an ass that God is. While they don't believe in him, they're still attacking his character. So "atheists" being angry at God actually is rooted in what they're doing and saying. Yeah, probably they're angry at Christians and religion in general and actually attack those things... but I don't go looking for Hindus to attack their gods that I don't believe in. (and yes, granted, no hindu is trying to tell me that I should be living according to their gods' ways)

Tammy

whereami

How's this for " Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer... "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0wSjJAsrAk&feature=related

snowbird

changed languages of humans to cause confusion - to protect them from themselves

dislocated jacob's hip for...fun? - to humble him?

hardned pharoh's heart in order to kill an army - to show him who is boss

killed caananites for no other reason that living in the land god wanted them to have - to purge the land of their corruption

forced adult men to mutilate thier penises - to circumcise the foreskin of their penises as sign of His covenant with them

forced subjucation of women - made provisions to benefit women who were already subjugated

forced women to marry their rapists - because no other man would have wanted them

showed no tolerance for disable and deformed persons by refusing them entry to priesthood - to point forward to His unblemished High Priest

Ordered killing of children, women - to rid the land of future corruption

Allowed slavery - for economic reasons, not racial

allowed murder of slaves as long as they suffered for a day or two before they died - for economic reasons, not racial

killed children for minor offenses such as making fun of man because he was bald - to teach those blisters a much-needed lesson

condoned allowed human sacrifice - of His one and only Son

contradictory and confused written message - only to those lacking in faith

After condemning man to death for the actions of one, decided torting and letting is son be murdered instead would be better than forgiveness - to show just how depraved Man really is!

allowed children to be killed by Herod in Jesus' stead - to show just how depraved Man really is!

said he would return, had his inspired word predict quick return, 2000+ years later, still out for coffee - actually, He gave a parable to show that He would be gone for quite some time. We have a habit of hearing only what we want to hear

Syl

bohm

tec - "But there are plenty of people who claim to be atheists who do talk about what a tyrant and an ass that God is. "

oh dear. No, they make statements like: "Assuming God exist, he do evil things". I can also say darth vader is evil without believing in him.

As for the rest -- If you by "attack" mean they make a rational argument against certain statements made by certain christians then yah, but i call that "open discussion".

The Issue is Not that God WANTS Us to Suffer...

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