A great crowd in heaven (Revelation Chapter 7 VS 19)

by Joliette 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Joliette

  ...I know I'm asking a lot of questions today. The questions just keep rolling...

  When I told my parents that a great crowd is mentioned as being in heaven. I also mentioned to them how paradise isnt mentioned in revelations. My parents said there is a difference between 'The Great Crowd' (the other sheep) and 'A Great Crowd' (angels). They also said that 'A New Earth' pretty much says to them that 'A new earth' is 'Paradise'. I said where does it indicate in the bible where the earth is going to cleaned up by the great crowd? My mom told me to stop asking silly questions and just read the bible.
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  notverylikely

  Paul equated paradise to third heaven. In Jewish mythology, third heaven was where humans went, also called paradise, which makes sense when think about the great crowd being in heaven and Jesus telling Barabbas he would be in paradise with jesus, since jesus went to heaven.
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  brotherdan

  That's because they've been taught to stop thinking at a certain point. They hit a thought blocker and will NOT go any further in their thinking. The WT tells them that Rev 19:1 is speaking about a DIFFERENT great crowd.

  I'm going to give you the best link you could ever ask for. John Macarthur is a VERY solid Bible teacher. He approaches the Bible in a verse by verse discussion but keeps to the context. His lectures on Revelation are VERY insightful.

  http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/1290_A-Jet-Tour-Through-Revelation

  This is a basic overview of Revelation and you will see almost immediately that he does not give Revelation the silly interpretations that the WTS gives it. He lectures on ever verse of revelation in this sermon series and it will give you a VERY different perspective than the one you're parents have given you.

  Here are three other lectures about what the great crowd and 144,000 mean in revelation:

  http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/66-28_Survivors-of-the-Wrath-of-God

  http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/66-29_Tribulation-Saints-Part-1

  http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons/66-30_Tribulation-Saints-Part-2

  You don't have to read the sermons. You can click on "Listen" to hear the actual lecture given. Enjoy!
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  brotherdan

  Gotta disagree with you NVL... 3rd heaven just meant the spiritual heavens to early Christians. There were 3 heavens. The atmospheric heavens, the heavens where the stars resided, and the 3rd heaven which is where God resides.
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  Chalam

  Paul equated paradise to third heaven.

  Correct, they are one and the same.

  2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (New International Version)

  2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

  There were 3 heavens. The atmospheric heavens, the heavens where the stars resided, and the 3rd heaven which is where God resides.

  I heard that explanation and variations on it (e.g. the demonic realm being the second heaven) a few times. As the bible doesn't talk specifically of the other two I was OK with that, although it never really grabbed me that much.

  When I read this prophetic book The Final Quest, the explanation of the three heavens did immediately sit at home in my spirit. The first heaven is described as heaven, before the fall. The second is after the fall and the third is after the white throne judgement.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  brotherdan

  I hadn't heard that interpretation, Stephen! So Paul may have been talking about heaven AFTER Jesus ressurection and assention?
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  cantleave

  Tell your mother that reading the bible is exactly what you are doing - reading the bible, without the influence of WTS literature. Also tell her you are using a proper bible, translated by bona fide language scholars and not biased to fit the false teachings of a cult.

  Have you visited www.jwfacts.com
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  brotherdan

  True Dat, can't leave. You should get a NASB bible IMO. MUCH more accurate than the NWT or New Way to Twist it.
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  Joliette

  Yes I have. I'm gonna have to pay them a visit again today. Yes, the bible interruption is based on the WTS. But so many many witnesses are blind to that.
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  Chalam

  So Paul may have been talking about heaven AFTER Jesus ressurection and assention?

  Paul never believed until well after then.

  Subsequently, he took a trip to heaven.

  If Rick Joyner is correct, he saw heaven after judgement day.

  How you getting on with those vids?

  Blessings,

  Stephen