Does The Name Really Matter?

by AGuest 189 Replies latest jw friends

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    NVL, you wrote:

    “The letter f also looked like as s long ago. . . .”

    You are much mistaken, NVL. The letter “F” NEVER looked like an “S”—ever. It was the OTHER WAY ROUND. It was t he long, medial or descendings (?) that was a form of the minuscule letter s formerly used where s occurred in the middle or at the beginning of a word, for example ?infulne?s ("sinfulness"). The modern letterform was called the terminal or short s.

    The questions marks in the text below were supposed to be images of the long "s."

    Yes, indeed, check out Wikipedia to see the photos! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s

    Check out the italicized long s used in the word "Congress" in the United States Bill of Rights.

    Check out the Title page of John Milton's Paradise Lost.

    The long s is derived from the old Roman cursive medial s. When the distinction between upper case (capital) and lower case (small) letter-forms became established, towards the end of the eighth century, it developed a more vertical form.In this period it was occasionally used at the end of a word, a practice which quickly died out but was occasionally revived in Italian printing between about 1465 and 1480. The short s was also normally used in the combination sf, for example in ?atisfaction. In German written in Blackletter, the rules are more complicated: short s also appears at the end of each word within a compound word.

    The long s is subject to confusion with the lower case or minuscule f, sometimes even having an f-like nub at its middle, but on the left side only, in various roman typefaces and in blackletter. There was no nub in its italic typeform, which gave the stroke a descender curling to the left—not possible with the other typeforms mentioned without kerning.

    The nub acquired its form in the blackletter style of writing. What looks like one stroke was actually a wedge pointing downward, whose widest part was at that height (x-height), and capped by a second stroke forming an ascender curling to the right. Those styles of writing and their derivatives in type design had a cross-bar at the height of the nub for letters f and t, as well as k. In roman type, these disappeared except for the one on the medial s.

    The long s was used in ligatures in various languages. Three examples were for si, ss, and st, besides the German double s, ß.

    The long s fell out of use in roman and italic typefaces well before the middle of the 19th century; in France the change occurred from about 1780 onwards, in Britain in the decades around 1800, and some twenty years later in the United States. This may have been spurred by the fact that long s looks somewhat like an f (in both its roman and italic forms), whereas short s did not have this disadvantage, making it easier to identify, especially for people with problems of vision.

    The long s survives in Fraktur typefaces. The present-day German double sß (das Eszett "the ess-zed" or scharfes-ess, "the sharp S") is an atrophied ligature form representing either ?z or ?s (see ß for more). Greek also features a normal sigma σ and a special terminal form ς, which may have supported the idea of specialized s forms. In Renaissance Europe a significant fraction of the literate class was familiar with Ancient Greek.

    Just thought you’d like to keep your facts straight. Then, maybe not. Nevertheless, may Jah bless and the Christ shine upon you.

    --Inkie

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    - Goodness, dear Inkie (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... don't be so... well, thorough... when you're trying to help someone "see" the truth! Becaue there are some here who can't handle such a thing, truly. Many are among those who do not know... one way or the other... and so, in the manner of the WTBTS... decry anything that even remotely LOOKS like it's from someone who's "educated"... whether academically, self-taught, or by the Holy Spirit. They seriously frown on that there... due, primarily to the fact that most of them AREN'T educated (because their "law" doesn't allow for it)... and, in imitation of them, some also do here, under the guise of it being offensive to the "christian" conscience (when the truth is that it assaults their own limited self-esteem because they DON'T know... and anger because they weren't ever permitted to read anything that MIGHT have enlightened them).

    Funny thing is... given our conversations over the years... neither of us are educated... in language or lettering. I received what I know about these things from my Lord, as I have openly admitted. Even though there are those here who literally deny that truth... in spite of the gifts of holy spirit including such things as allowing the recipient to speak/know a foreign tongue... for the purpose of speaking truth, prophesying, and building up the Body of Christ. Apparently some who claim to possess that same spirit... are [very] ignorant of its powers.

    Now, you haven't professed here that holy spirit is the source of what you've shared; however, I think the fact that you're a master calligrapher (at least, that's what you've told me on several occasions) will preclude me from further discussion with you on this particular matter. In my mind, if you say the "s" was made to resemble an "f"... and not the other way around... I feel very comfortable deferring to you on that (and, hopefully, dear NVL (peace to you!) will, too). That is, of course, unless my Lord reveals different to me... which he has not, yet. To the contrary, my spirit absolutely bears witness with what you have shared on this. Thank you!

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Inkie
    Inkie

    Dearest AGuest: May Jah bless and the Christ shine upon you.

    No, our Lord has not told me this about the long letter "S." Because I am a calligrapher, I have studied letter forms and scripts in order to learn how to create them myself. In that learning, I have studied with some of the world's well-renowned scribes and calligraphers and "master penmen" and "master penwomen." It one of my joys in life. Anyway, it has been through studying with them and reading such subjects that I learned about letters of many kinds. My favorites are Spencerian Script, Copperplate script, and Gothic Blackletter. While I do do other scripts, those are my favorite to create.

    While I did mean to be thorough, I also meant to be accurate, as there is so much inaccuracy on this Board as to be astounding.

    --Inkie

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    there is so much inaccuracy on this Board as to be astounding.

    Yes, it is almost unbelievable, isn't it, dear Inkie (again, peace to you!)? I find it most astounding from those who still go around trying to show others what they think is "in the Bible". More so, though, for me... from former elders. I would have thought that such ones would have taken the time to read the Bible, seeing as they reached out... and/or ALLOWED themselves... to be appointed/used/raised up over the "sheep", etc. I always thought they did, as perhaps many here did... which is why I listened to them, initially. I really thought they knew. Heck, I really thought they WANTED to know. I now know... they just wanted some kind of "glory" and recognition. I know, I know... some are going to want to burn me at the stake for stating that and say, "No, you're wrong - they really DID want to help the sheep!" But, I mean, c'mon... knowing what's in the Bible should not only be a prequisite... it should have been a personal goal... regardless of an appointment... for anyone supposedly wanting to "shepherd" God's sheep... by means of it.

    I mean, I'm just sayin'...

    Peace to you, dear one!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA, who really isn't in a "flowery words" just for the sake of "flowery words" kind of mood tonight, may JAH forgive me...

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    I was just searching for something else and happened upon this book Download Color Book , Download Black & White Book

    I have had a skim and it seems pretty good to me so I have copied from the section starting with baptism onwards which all relates to the importance. power and use of "the name". The section regarding how the name relates to the Father and Spirit looks interesting, but as I said, I have only have a skim so far.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

    H Being Baptized,

    in the name of ‘Jesus Christ ’

    Baptizing, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ is complying with the Bible, based on Biblical consistency.

    Baptizing, using the titles of God, ‘ Father, Son, and Holy Ghost,’ is drawn from a single verse.

    I Believe, Biblical consistency reveals the correct understanding.

    Baptizing, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ isn't omitting anyone. It is baptizing in the name of God. Because, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same God (one and the same Deity) . Baptizing, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ is following Biblical consistency.

    In the Bible, Christians performed everything in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ including baptisms. We don’t find one action in the Bible, being verbally signed with the descriptive names of God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. The name of ‘ Jesus Christ ’ was, and still is, the verbal signature for activating God's authority.

    The majority of churches extract their baptism formula, from their interpretation of a single verse: Matthew 28:19. I believe that they baptize using the descriptive names of God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, because they believe this formula includes everyone. But how can there be an everyone, since the Bible flatly and repeatedly declares there is only one God, and he is God alone, by himself. I believe the name,‘ Jesus Christ,’ belongs to God; and God, all by himself, is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. (read the next chapter)

    Jesus Christ Colossians 2:9-10 “9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”

    We don’t want to be so focused on Matthew 28:19, and our interpretation of it, that we fail to see the other verses. We need to stay in Biblical context, equally considering all verses, prayerfully.

    Chapter H — page 1 What do we find in the Bible, other than Matthew 28:19?

    • We find people being instructed, to be baptized in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’ (Acts 2:38)

    • We find people being commanded, to be baptized in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’ (View Acts 10:48, in other versions of the Bible.)

    • The Bible records events, of people being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 8:16; Acts 19:5)

    • We find people, who were already baptized unto John the Baptist's baptism, being re-baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. They were baptized, but not into Christ. Therefore,

    St. Paul re-baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:1-7).

    • Not only Baptism, but everything is to be performed in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ in word and in deed. (Colossians 3:17)

    • People were healed, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    (Acts 3:6-9; Acts 3:16; Acts 4:10; Acts 9:34; Acts 4:29-30; James 5:14-15)

    • Demons were cast out, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    (Acts 16:17-18; Mark 9:38-40; Mark 16:17; Luke 10:17; Luke 9:49-50)

    do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,” Colossians 3:17

    “17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”

    In the Bible, we find everything, which Christians performed “in the name of __________________”, was executed in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    And we find nothing being executed (verbally signed) , using the descriptive names of God: ‘ Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.’

    Chapter H — page 2

    Conducting business, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ can be divided into two categories.

    1. Businessthatdoesn’tinvolvetheverbalsignature: ‘ In the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    We might give a needful drink of water to one of Christ's followers, without saying, ‘ In the name of Jesus Christ.’ Even though nothing was said, it is a form of doing things in the name of, acting for, Jesus Christ.

    2. Businessthatinvolvestheverbalsignature: ‘ In the name of Jesus Christ.’

    In some areas, Christians need to use the power and authority of Jesus Christ: in baptisms, healings, casting out demons, etc. In these areas, using the verbal signature, ‘ In the name of Jesus Christ,’ is standard procedure. It is pronouncing Christ's authority upon the action. Jesus Christ gives genuine Christians the right, and the responsibility, to use his name/authority, for appropriate purposes.

    Question: Why did St. Paul re-baptize people, who were previously baptized unto John the Baptist's baptism?

    Answer: PeoplewhowerebaptizedbyJohntheBaptist,were converting to his teachings; they became John’s disciples (students) . And for a period of time, this was God’s plan.

    But when Jesus Christ started to rise on the scene, the people were to convert to Christ. So with baptism, they converted from a follower of John the Baptist, to a follower of Jesus Christ.

    “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 19:3-5

    “3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Chapter H — page 3

    This chapter focuses on using the Verbal Signature:

    ‘ In the name of Jesus Christ.’

    More Scriptures about the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ and baptism.

    “be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ” Acts 2:3 8

    “38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

    “baptized into Christ” Galatians 3:27 “27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on

    Christ.”

    “baptized into Jesus Christ” Romans 6:3 “3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ

    were baptized into his death?”

    “and the name of Jesus Christ,” Acts 8:12

    “12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”

    “they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 8:16 “16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized

    in the name of the Lord Jesus.)”

    Many versions of the Bible use the name, ‘ Jesus Christ,’ in this verse. Acts 10:48

    “48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”

    “none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12

    “12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

    Baptism, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’

    for the remission of our sins

    Chapter H — page 4

    Everything was performed in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ ’

    Note the spoken words, the verbal signature.

    “In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.” Acts 3:6-9

    “6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

    8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. 9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:”

    “through faith in his name” Acts 3:16

    “16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.”

    “by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,” Acts 4:10

    “10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.”

    “signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.” Acts 4:29-30

    “29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.”

    Note the words spoken.

    “Jesus Christ maketh thee whole:” Acts 9:34 “34 And Peter said unto him, Aeneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole:

    arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately.”

    “in the name of the Lord:” James 5:14

    “14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:”

    Chapter H — page 5

    Note the spoken words, the verbal signature.

    “I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ” Acts 16:17-18

    “17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.”

    “the devils are subject unto us through thy name.” Luke 10:17 “17 ¶ And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the

    devils are subject unto us through thy name.”

    “casting out devils in thy name,” Mark 9:38-40

    “38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

    40 For he that is not against us is on our part.”

    “In my name shall they cast out devils;” Mark 16:17 “17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they

    cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”

    Vagabond Jews, exorcists, attempted to duplicate the actions of St. Paul, by attempting to use the verbal signature.

    “vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus,” Acts 19:13-17

    “13 ¶ Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

    15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

    17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.”

    Chapter H — page 6

    We need to ask the big question.

    Why can’t we find any actions, in the Bible, being verbally signed with the descriptive names of God: ‘ Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?’

    In the Bible, we find the Christians performing everything in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    Believe on the name of ‘ Jesus Christ ’

    “to them that believe on his name:” John 1:12 “12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the

    sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:” “because he hath not believed in the name

    of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18

    “18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

    “that believing ye might have life through his name.” John 20:31 “31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,

    the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

    “that through his name” Acts 10:43 “43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name

    whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”

    “be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ” Acts 2:38

    “38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”

    Chapter H — page 7

    Ask in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ ’

    “If ye shall ask any thing in my name,” John 14:12-14

    “12 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

    14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” “ask of the Father in my name,” John 15:16

    “16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

    At times, people have offered large sums of money to anyone, who could find in the Bible, where someone was baptized, using the descriptive names/titles of God: ‘ Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.’

    Why?

    They wanted us to search the Scriptures, so we would see for ourselves; the name of ‘ Jesus Christ ’ was always used by Christians, to activate the power of God. It was a challenge to set us on a path of Biblical discovery. Nothing is more convincing than seeing and discovering things in the Scriptures, for ourselves.

    There are people, who were told about ‘ Jesus name baptism,’ receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. When they heard it, they were totally convinced that these things were off base. Then, they pulled out their Bible, and set forth to expose the Biblical errors of these unusual teachings.

    They looked to the Bible for truth, with a right heart, and ran into a problem. Instead of finding Scriptures to reveal the errors, they kept finding additional Scriptures to support the beliefs. In the end, they established that the beliefs were Biblically correct.

    Chapter H — page 8

    Let's examine Matthew 28:19

    The Bible repeatedly declares, there is only one God. The Bible also talks about the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, with interactions and wills. It is difficult for the human mind to imagine, how the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost can be one and the same God (one and the same Deity being) , because this is impossible in the human world.

    Since the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same God (one and the same Deity being) , it can be concluded that the name of ‘ Jesus Christ’ belongs to all of him: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 28:19 doesn’t say ‘baptize them in the name s (plural) , Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.’ Rather, it says, “baptizing them in the name of” , referring to a single name, and/or authority.

    Is Matthew 28:19 saying: (1) We are to use the verbal signature: “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost?” (2) Or are we to be baptized in the NAME; the NAME that is of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost? (3) Or is it saying, we are to be baptized in the authority of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost? I believe that the NAME of Jesus Christ, when properly used as a verbal signature, contains the authority of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; because they are one and the same God (one and the same Deity being).

    “baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” Matthew 28:19

    “19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

    Question: WhydoIbelievethatthenameof‘Jesus’belongsto the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; and this is the singular name referred to in Matthew 28:19?

    Answer: Thisistheinterpretation,ofMatthew28:19,which harmonizes with the rest of the Scriptures.

    The phrases, ‘ in the name of,’ and ‘ in the authority of,’ are often synonymous. They’re referring to the authority found in someone’s name: signature, etc. I believe the name, ‘ Jesus Christ,’ holds the authority of the one God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And genuine Christians have the right and responsibility to use his name/authority, for appropriate purposes.

    Chapter H — page 9

    In Matthew 28:19, Christ is giving the eleven disciples some final instructions. A few days later, on the day of Pentecost, the first day of the Church, St. Peter instructed the first converts of the Church, to be baptized in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ while all the Apostles stood with him.Did they take it upon themselves to change Christ’s instructions? I believe, they understood his instructions, and acted accordingly.

    When we find many Scriptures implying, we are to use the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ in all things. And we find only one verse, which can appear to indicate, we are to use the descriptive names of God: ‘ Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.’ I start my reexamination, by scrutinizing the verse, which appears contrary to the rest.

    It’s not an issue of which verses are correct, for the whole Bible is truth. The problem, of the seemingly disagreement of the verses, is in our interpretation. When everything is interpreted correctly, all the Bible verses will agree.

    I'm more willing to accept a fresh interpretation of Matthew 28:19, which conforms to many Bible verses, than I am willing to try to make many Bible verses fit, the traditional interpretation of Matthew 28:19.

    I have heard it said, ‘ Jesus Christ spoke Matthew 28:19, so it’s more trustworthy’. But Christians believe that the whole Bible is truth. We believe God is in control of all things, and he controls the content of the Bible. All Biblical instructions come from God.

    Chapter H — page 10

    Titles/Descriptive Names and Actual Names

    A title/descriptive name is a name that describes someone, or the position they hold.

    John Walker had a son attending college. He sent him a birthday card, containing a check. He signed the card with his title/descriptive name: Dad. But he signed the check, John Walker.

    Now stop and think.

    ‘ Father,’ ‘ Son,’ and ‘ Holy Ghost,’ are descriptive names of God. Even ‘ God ’ is a descriptive name.

    In the Bible, we don’t find Christians using the following:

    In the name of the Son, rise up and walk. In the name of the Son of God, rise up and walk. In the name of the Lord, rise up and walk.

    In the Bible, we find Christ’s followers using his ACTUAL name, to conduct official business.

    The names, ‘ Father,’ ‘ Son,’ and ‘ Holy Ghost,’ are good titles/ descriptive names of God. But in the Bible, Christians are instructed to use the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ for activating God's authority.

    I believe the name, ‘ Jesus,’ is an actual name of God, belonging to all of him: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Jesus came in this Father’s name. I believe this means: he possesses his Father’s name; he has his Father’s authority, and he came to do his Father’s business.

    In the Bible, when Christians conducted official business, in the name of _____, they always used the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’ And we need to do likewise.

    Anytime we do official business, for Jesus Christ, like baptism, we need to use his actual name. For his name, like a signature, carries his authority. And genuine Christians have the right and responsibility to use his name/authority, for appropriate purposes. The power/authority of the name of ‘ Jesus Christ ’ is applied to the baptism, when we are baptized in his name, for the remission of our sins.

    Chapter H — page 11

    Use an EXHAUSTIVE concordance, and see how many actions you can find in the Bible, which were verbally signed with the descriptive names of God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Baptizing, in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ,’ doesn’t omit anyone. It's following Biblical instructions, based on Biblical consistency.

    Many churches baptize using the descriptive names of God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; because they want to include everyone. But is there an everyone, if there’s only one God (one Deity being) .

    The name, ‘ Jesus,’ wasn’t/isn’t a unique name, in Bible times, or today. The name, ‘ Christ,’ refers to the Messiah.The name, ‘ Jesus Christ,’ is referring to the Jesus, who is the Messiah.

    The name, ‘ Jesus (Joshua) ,’ means: Jehovah saves. The name, ‘ Christ,’ means: the Messiah.

    Chapter H — page 12

    a There’s only one God (one Deity being) .

    He is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Thus we aren’t omitting anyone, when we are baptized in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    Understanding the Godhead is a major fork, in the road of understanding the things of God. What we believe about the Godhead, will affect our interpretation of the Scriptures, including the verses about water baptism.

    The Bible repeatedly declares that there is only one God. Then we read about the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    Question: How can one Deity being (God) , be all three? Answer: There is one God, in three manifestations.

    I use the word, ‘ manifestations,’ instead of the word, ‘ persons,’ because it tends to retain our mental picture of God, as one God (one Deity being) . The Bible doesn’t use the word, ‘ persons,’ to refer to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And I feel it is a poor choice of words. Because the word, ‘persons,’ is capable of painting a mental picture of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as a union of three Gods (three separate Deity beings).

    The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are in perfect harmony, because they are three manifestations, of the one and only Deity being (God) .

    Is Jesus Christ God? Or is he someone else, who is also Deity? • Is the Holy Ghost God's Spirit? Or is the Holy Ghost another

    Deity being, who is working with God?

    Is there one God (one Deity being), who is reaching out to mankind, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?

    Are the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three separate individual God/Deity beings, in a union, in which everyone is equal?

    One God = Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

    The words, ‘ God ’ and ‘ Deity,’ are Synonymous

    The definition, of one God, is: one Deity being. How many do we believe exist, one or three?

    The Scriptures consistently declare, there is only one who is God. And he alone is God, by himself.

    The following Scriptures dissolve the theory of a union, of three separate individual Deity beings (a team) .

    I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:” Isaiah 45:5-6

    “5 ¶ I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.”

    “thou art God alone.” Psalms 86:10 “10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.”

    “I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 44:6

    “6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.”

    “I am the LORD; and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:18

    “18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”

    “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well:” James 2:19

    “19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

    “I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me:” Deuteronomy 32:39

    “39 ¶ See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.”

    “I am God, and there is none else;” Isaiah 46:9

    “9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,”

    Chapter a — page 2

    “there is no God else beside me;” “there is none beside me.” I am God, and there is none else.” Isaiah 45:21

    “21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

    22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.”

    “there is no saviour beside me.” Hosea 13:4 “4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt

    know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.” “there is none like thee,

    neither is there any God beside thee,” 2 Samuel 7:22

    “22 Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.”

    Deuteronomy 6:4

    “4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” “for there is one God;

    and there is none other but he:” Mark 12:32-34

    “32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: 33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

    34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.”

    “that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.”

    “beside me there is no saviour.”

    Isaiah 43:10-11

    “10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.”

    Chapter a — page 3

    “Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God;” Isaiah 44:8

    “8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”

    “the only wise God,” 1 Timothy 1:17 “17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be

    honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” “To the only wise God, our Saviour,” Jude 1:25

    “25 To the only wise God, our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.”

    “the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.” Deuteronomy 4:35

    “35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.”

    Our reasoning about God is greatly affected, by the way humans learn and reason. We learn by remembering what we have seen and experienced. We know the color green, because we have seen it, and recorded this color in our memory. If we never saw it, we wouldn't be able to envision green.

    If we could travel back in time 500 years, and tell people about our current world, they wouldn't believe us. There wouldn't be anything in their memory, enabling them to envision, how a satellite could stay up in the air for years, without being fastened to something. They couldn't imagine, how they could look at a screen, and watch things on the other side of the world, as they take place. We might find some people who would accept what we were saying, without trying to comprehend them. Others would pass these things off as nonsense, because they wouldn’t be able to imagine, how they could be possible.

    The Bible makes it very clear, there’s only one God. In the area of Deity, he is alone, by himself. There’s no other God (Deity) besides him.

    If we aren’t careful, we can individualize the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, to the point that we’re no longer portraying one God, but a union of three Gods (three Deity beings).

    Chapter a — page 4

    Likewise: Humanshavedifficultyenvisioning,how the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost can be one and the same Deity being (one God) ; because we have nothing in our memory, to which we can parallel this seemingly contradiction. It’s impossible for us to be three, all by our self. And some people lay this limitation on God.

    People have trouble comprehending, how God can transform himself into absolutely any form he chooses. He can be in as many manifestations as he chooses, simultaneously, even with interactions, and still be omnipresent, and a singular he.

    In an attempt to make things fit human understanding, some people try to explain the three being one, as a unity, instead of being one in number. But I believe the one God Scriptures eliminate this theory. I believe, we need to accept it, just because the Bible states it, and trust God to give us the proper understanding.

    Another ability of God, which seems impossible to humans, is the ability for the Word (Jesus Christ) to exist with Almighty God, and at the same time be Almighty God (John 1:1) .It seems impossible, because it doesn't parallel our existence. We can't do it. And we can't imagine how God can do it.

    The differences, between this world and God, are so great, they’re unmeasurable. We don’t have anything in our memory banks to envision them. The only way, for us to comprehend them, is by God giving us the understanding.

    When we study the oneness of God, we need to beware of the word, ‘ AND (Strong’s #2532).When I study the Greek word, from which it was translated, my understanding is that it doesn’t always mean‘plus.’ Example: ‘Thegreenappleandsourapple.’ InEnglish, this phrase would portray two apples. But my understanding is that the Greek word could mean two, or one and the same apple: ‘ the green sour apple.’ Thus, my studies inform me: ‘ The Father, and the Lord Jesus ’ could be translated,‘ The Father, even the Lord Jesus.’ I’m not a scholar in this area, so check it out for yourself.

    God isn't obstructed with limitations like mankind. We can only be in one body, and only at one place.We can't be invisible or plural. However, God can do and be whatever he chooses; he has no limitations whatsoever.

    Some people prefer to let the oneness Scriptures alone, and preach a union of three. However, I believe the only way, all the Scriptures fit together, is with the understanding that the one and only God is all three.

    We use the word, ‘ God,’ as a descriptive name, when we refer to God himself. And we use the word, ‘ Deity,’ for labeling someone, who has the supreme authority and power of God. Now, if we would change the phrase, ‘ Jesus Christ is God,’ declaring who he is, and replace it with the phrase, ‘ Jesus Christ is Deity,’ declaring what power/office he holds, we could portray Jesus Christ as another Deity being, instead of portraying him as Almighty God himself. But once we have two separate individual Deity beings, we have two Gods.

    If someone wants to preach a three Deity (three God) gospel, he can specially select and highlight the verses that use plural pronouns for God, and the verses that show some kind of interaction between the manifestations of God. Or if someone wants to preach a one God gospel, he can specially select and highlight the verses that flatly declare, there is only one God, he is God alone, by himself, and there is no God with him. However, if we want the truth, we must prayerfully consider ALL the verses, collectively.

    If we aren't careful, we can portray three Gods in the things we say. Saying, ‘ God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost,’ sounds like a list of three Gods. Let’s make ourselves clearly understood, by saying, ‘ God as the Father, God as the Son, and God as the Holy Ghost.’

    How can God be omnipresent? He is an invisible Spirit, who is so large (infinity times infinity) , he simply exists everywhere, all the time. He is so large, he even fills the distant remote areas of space. We actually live and move inside of God.

    “thou art there:”“thou art there.” Psalms 139:7-8

    “7 ¶ Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”

    “Can any hide himself” Jeremiah 23:24 “24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith

    the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.”

    “For in him we live, and move, and have our being;” Acts 17:28 “28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of

    your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”

    Chapter a — page 7

    “Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool:” Acts 7:49 “49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye

    build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?” “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,” Luke 24:39

    “39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

    Pronoun usage for God

    Almost every pronoun in the Bible, which refers to God, is singular. But out of the multitudes of pronouns for God, we do find an extremely few plural pronouns, or a number of singular pronouns in the same verse, which indicate more than one.

    Question: How can the one lone God be referred to with plural pronouns?

    Answer: I will use a tree with three main branches, and try to explain how we can correctly use singular and plural pronouns, when referring to God.

    We can talk about each branch of the tree individually.

    We can talk about two or three branches.

    We can talk about the whole tree.

    The right branch, IT is full of leaves. (Singular pronoun)

    The branches, THEY are full of leaves. (Plural pronoun)

    The whole tree, IT is full of leaves. (Singular pronoun)

    Likewise: Bothsingularandpluralpronounsmaybeused correctly, when talking about God.

    (Manifestations)

    One Deity being reaching, branching out, in manifestations.

    Plural pronouns are appropriate, when we refer to the manifestations of God. Singular pronouns are appropriate, when we talk about the one and only God.

    Chapter a — page 7

    Let's look at an example of intermixed pronouns.

    Plural and Singular pronouns are used interchangeably. Verse 26 uses PLURAL pronouns. Then, Verse 27 converts them to SINGULAR pronouns. “in our image,” becomes, “in his own image,” . “Let us make” , becomes creation by HE, “created he” .

    “26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.” Genesis 1:26-27

    “he rested” “from all his work” “which he had made.” Genesis 2:2

    “2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.”

    “I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;” Isaiah 44:24

    “24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;”

    Creation

    1. God’s Spirit “ the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters ” 2. We find God creating. 3. We find credit for creation being given to Jesus Christ.

    Yet the Bible says that HE rested from HIS work.

    If the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are three separate individual Deity beings; then, they would have rested from their work.

    Chapter a — page 8

    “I have made the earth” Isaiah 45:12 “12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.”

    “God himself that formed the earth and made it” Isaiah 45:18 “18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”

    “who created all things by Jesus Christ:” Ephesians 3:9 “9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:”

    “All things were made by him” (Jesus Christ) John 1:3 “3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

    “by whom also he made the worlds” Hebrews 1:3 “2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;”

    All in (inside) Jesus Christ

    The one God branches out as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Yet they are together in the body of Christ. The Father, and the Holy Ghost, are present inside the body of the Son. When we have Jesus Christ, we have all of God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    • The Father dwells inside the body of Jesus Christ. • Jesus Christ is full of the Holy Ghost.

    • When we have Jesus Christ, we have the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

    “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” “ye are complete in him,” Colossians 2:9-10

    “9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”

    Chapter a — page 9

    God was inside the body of Christ.

    “To wit, that God was in Christ,” 2 Corinthians 5:19

    “19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.”

    “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;” “the Father that dwelleth in me,”(“dwelleth in me”) John 14:6-10

    “6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”

    “the Father is in me, and I in him” John 10:38

    “38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

    “God was manifest in the flesh,”1 Timothy 3:16

    “16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

    “he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.” John 12:44-45

    “44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.”

    Chapter a — page 10

    A good parallel, of ‘ the Father in the Son,’ is God talking to Moses, from the midst of the burning bush, and God inside Jesus Christ, talking to the people. God, who was inside his son, talked and ministered unto the people, The Father in the Son.

    We need to remember that God is omnipresent. Even though he is inside the body of Christ, he still exists in heaven, and everywhere else. Mankind is limited to one body, one place at a time, etc. But God is totally unlimited, in all directions.

    The Two Sides of Jesus Christ

    Question: IftheFather,Son,andHolyGhost,areoneandthe same God, why do we find things in the Bible, like: the Son praying to the Father; two wills; etc.?

    Answer: JesusChristwasAlmightyGod,insidetheSonofman (his son) . Jesus Christ was God. He was also a human being. The human being was the living Tabernacle, of Almighty God.

    As a human being, he was subject to the things of God. Since humans are instructed to pray, he prayed. The human being side of Jesus Christ prayed to God. He also prayed to set an example, and to teach others. Answer: JesusChristhadtwowillsinsideofhim;becausehe was both Almighty God, and a human being. As a human being, he preferred to avoid dying. As God, he wanted to save our souls. As a human being, Jesus Christ submitted himself to the will of God, giving us an excellent example of submission to God. I believe that Jesus Christ is a dual being: Almighty God himself, inside a human body (his son) . The Father in the Son.

    If we study the words of Jesus Christ, they can be divided into the words of God, and into the words of the human being. “I thirst” was the human being speaking. “Lazarus, come forth” was God speaking.

    As a human being

    • He hungered. • He prayed to God. • He wept. • He wearied from walking • Etc.

    As God

    • He fed the multitudes. • He healed the sick. • He raised the dead. • He calmed the sea

    • Etc.

    Chapter a — page 11

    We can find places in the Bible, where the Father, and the Son, make the same claims. The answer, to these seemingly contradictions, is the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are one and the same God.

    Question: How can Jesus Christ be the Son of the Father, when his conception was of the Holy Ghost?

    Answer: The Father, and the Holy Ghost, are one and the same God.

    Question: Who is the First and the Last? Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, 48:12 Revelation 1:11, 1:17, 2:8, 22:13.

    Answer: The Father, and the Son, are one and the same God. Question: Who is the Almighty? Exodus 6:3; 2 Corinthians 6:17;

    Revelation 1:8. Question: Who is our Savior? I saiah 43:11, 45:21; Hosea 13:14;

    Luke 1:47, 2:11; Acts 13:23. Question: WhoisgoingtoSendtheComforter?

    John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7.

    Etc. One God

    “ 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.”

    The Bible flatly declares, many times, there is only one God, and he is God alone, by himself. Since the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same God (Deity being) , it can be concluded that the name of ‘ Jesus Christ’ belongs to all of him: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Thus no one is being ignored, when we are baptized in the name of ‘ Jesus Christ.’

    do all in the name of the Lord Jesus,” Colossians 3:17 “17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord

    Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”

  • donuthole
    donuthole

    @Stephen

    There is some evidence that the instruction to go "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" may not have been original and was a later addition to the text.

    -Anthony

  • notverylikely
    notverylikely

    You are much mistaken, NVL. The letter “F” NEVER looked like an “S”—ever. It was the OTHER WAY ROUND.

    Ok, I was. My point is still valid. In correcting me, you have proven my point. The Lord works in mysterious way. Of course, me and the Lord, we got an understanding.

    Becaue there are some here who can't handle such a thing, truly. Many are among those who do not know... one way or the other... and so, in the manner of the WTBTS... decry anything that even remotely LOOKS like it's from someone who's "educated"... whether academically, self-taught, or by the Holy Spirit.

    My dear Shelby, peace be unto you. You, of course, are completely mistaken. My lord has instructed me to tell you that it is people that are wrong that need to be corrected, as I just was. It matters not how they were educated, if they are right, then they are right. If they are wrong, as you are, claiming to be educated by HS is an affront my Lord. He told me this over a beer last night. He invites me over because we have an understanding. He also said to tell you his name isn't Zeus, never was, never has been, never been been associated.

    He said it's absolutely dumb to associate the two because of they way they are both prounounced in modern American English.

    In my mind, if you say the "s" was made to resemble an "f"... and not the other way around... I feel very comfortable deferring to you on that (and, hopefully, dear NVL (peace to you!) will, too).

    Of course I will. I was speaking from memory. My lord instructed me to ask you why, without knowing Inkie street cred, you would automatically defer to that person and drag holy spirit into when anyone (myself included) could simply look it up to verify, but when Leolia, with her massive credentials, education, examples and knowledge says something to contradict you and she provides many references, historical, archealogical an otherwise, you do everything you can to discredit her posts and eventually says my Lord educated you?

    He asks why display such a double standard and ignores those whom he has sent to educate you? Why do you ignore the blessings our Lord has put in front of you?

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Okay, dear NVL (peace to you!)... I'll bite! It's early and I don't need to start my chores, just yet, so...

    You, of course, are completely mistaken. My lord has instructed me to tell you that it is people that are wrong that need to be corrected, as I just was.

    Well, I would not dispute what your "lord" told you here, except to say... sometimes. Sometimes it's perfectly okay to them in their ignorance. My Lord did, with the ignorant in his day [in the flesh]. Of course, that was with those who wanted to BE ignorant... and thus, wrong. I would say, however, that YOU are wrong in considering me "completely mistaken." There trule ARE some here who cannot handle such, and SAY as much in comments to both you AND I in threads like this. They so commented in the thread between Leolaia and I on the subject of Greek and its symbols. Mayhaps you need to go back and re-read that?

    It matters not how they were educated, if they are right, then they are right.

    See, you not only misunderstood what I stated, but who I was stating it about. You took it as directed at you... which it absolutely was NOT... but at those who even took exception with YOUR comments. Now, why IS that? What did you take my comments as to having anything negative to do with YOU... versus actually trying to DEFEND our discussions to those who "can't handle" them?

    If they are wrong, as you are, claiming to be educated by HS is an affront my Lord.

    What, your "lord" now acknowledged the Holy Spirit? Seriously? I mean, that you even HAVE a "lord," is... well, contrary to what you've been stating up until now. But now that you have one, "he" believes in the Holy Spirit? Wait... are you experiencing a change of heart, dear NVL? Don't get me wrong... that [might] be wonderful!! I mean, if it's not to the Son of God, then, well... you've still got some turning to do, but at least it's a start! Am I to understand that you now BELIEVE... in the Holy Spirit????

    But to respond to your statement... I wasn't wrong; you misunderstood... and so, once again, misstate what I DID state and mean.

    He told me this over a beer last night. He invites me over because we have an understanding. He also said to tell you his name isn't Zeus, never was, never has been, never been been associated.

    Hmmm, well. My Lord is actually more of a wine drinker (well, he was, but he hasn't partaken from the product of the vine in some time, now. He promises to do so again, however, so I'm looking forward to that. 'Cause I really dig a good Zin or Merlot). I am most certainly glad, however, that you and your "lord" have an understanding... between yourselves, at lease. Because you don't appear to understand a good deal of what I share here, which I assume means "he" doesn't, either. But so long as YOU two see eye to eye...

    And I am certainly glad to hear "his" name isn't, wasn't, never has been... Zeus. My Lord says the same of himself and so wonders why people... many, MANY people... believe they are calling on/upon him... while using a name that includes it. He's not mad about it; just curious. It really is kind of head-shaking for him.

    He said it's absolutely dumb to associate the two because of they way they are both prounounced in modern American English.

    Well, see, that's the difference between YOUR "lord"... and mine. The word of MY Lord... is that he is not "American"... and simply because "Americans" wish to lay claim to him... doesn't mean they're right ABOUT him... that indeed, MOST of what they BELIEVE about him (including, for some, that he actually has/had blonde hair and blue eyes, is/was tall and strapping, was perfect in the flesh, and called upon a God named "LORD" or "Jehovah")... is totally false. He says they do this because of the anglo-saxon rejection of anything "heathen" (i.e., darker, from the Orient, East, or Dark Continent)... which was considered "unclean"... and so they "Europeanized" him... into a "golden calf"... something beautiful to the eyes of FLESH... and now call "it" their "god"... but I digress...

    His word to me is that the Greek name "Iesous"... was inserted by the Greeks to support their national god... which the Romans later translated as "He Zeus" in the Latin Vulgate... because that's what the Greek "Iesous" means... and was translated, when the anglo Bible was created, to "Jesus"... but that HIS name is Jah eShua. His word to me is that he IS the One who came in the name of JAH... and will come in that name once again... and that His is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... Hebrews, all... and by means of Isaac... the God of Israel... and thus, the God of the Jews... and Jews still exist in the world today... and so does their language, although modernized.

    But that, like him, his name... has not changed. It is still... Jah eShua. And if one really has to use the English form of it, then one should call him... Joshua.

    I was speaking from memory.

    Which is the problem... for you... and most. Memories are faulty. Which is why I don't rely on mine, but on the Holy Spirit... which One RECALLS to my mind... all the things he TOLD us.

    My lord instructed me to ask you why, without knowing Inkie street cred, you would automatically defer to that person and drag holy spirit into when anyone (myself included) could simply look it up to verify, but when Leolia, with her massive credentials, education, examples and knowledge says something to contradict you and she provides many references, historical, archealogical an otherwise, you do everything you can to discredit her posts and eventually says my Lord educated you?

    Tell your "lord," that I did state to dear Inkie (peace to you!), that I would defer to him... UNLESS I heard different from my Lord... which I didn't. Which was not the case with dear Leolaia (peace to you, as well!)... and that had I not heard anything with regard to the information dear Leolaia provided, I would have stated nothing... but, unfortunately, I DID hear... and simply shared what I heard... that, unfortunately, contradicted what she thought she knew... indeed, from memory. Tell your "lord" that ALL of us, including myself and dear Leolaia... are only human and so subject to error... which is why relying on the Holy Spirit... who is the ONLY One who can lead us into ALL truth... is most probably the best route to take.

    He asks why display such a double standard and ignores those whom he has sent to educate you?

    Tell him, please, that no double standard was displayed, that indeed, once again, you obviously didn't read everything and so, once again, have misunderstood... and misstated... what occurred... AND... that, thus far, the only One sent to "educate" ME... has been the Holy Spirit... by means of the anointing he has given me and is in me. Tell him, please, that if he wasn't FALSE... he would know this... and thus, so would you.

    Why do you ignore the blessings our Lord has put in front of you?

    Ummmm... YOUR "lord" doesn't exist. Right? I mean, you yourself have said so for, what, months now. And MY Lord's blessings... as to ME... are NEVER ignored. I totally receive them. In fact, I even try to SHARE them... even with you.

    I don't believe your "lord" knows what he's talking about, dear one... and thus, neither do you. But I'm sure it all SOUNDS good... to you... and perhaps a few others. Even if they're lies. Ah, well...

    But PEACE to you, truly!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    donuthole There is some evidence that the instruction to go "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" may not have been original and was a later addition to the text.

    Could be. I have no issue with this text though :)

    I wonder into what name Paul baptised people?

    2 Corinthians 13:14 (English Standard Version)

    14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

    Acts 19:1-7 (New International Version)

    Paul in Ephesus
    1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
    They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

    3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
    "John's baptism," they replied.

    4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.

    Or Peter and John?

    Acts 8:14-17 (New International Version)

    14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

    I think it is clear, to be baptised in the Holy Spirit then He needs a mention :)

    Blessings in Christ,

    Stephen

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    I wonder into what name Paul baptised people?

    Since Paul is recorded to have said the following, dear Chalam (the greatest of love and peace to you!), then that should be obvious:

    "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty." KJV "Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom. " NLT "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." NIV "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." ESV "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." NASB "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." RSV "Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, [there] is liberty." ASV "And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty;" YLT "Now the Lord is the Spirit, but where the Spirit of [the] Lord [is, there is] liberty." DBY "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty." WEB "Now the Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." HNV

    Does this comport with what Christ said/taught? It does. Because as to the second part of Paul's statement, that "where the Spirit of the Lord is... there is liberty," Christ is recorded to have said:

    "Therefore... if the SON sets you FREE... you will truly BE free." John 8:36

    Because... it is the SPIRIT... that is LIFE-GIVING... and it is through HIM... that we can HAVE freedom... as the sons of God."

    The name of the Holy Spirit, therefore... is the SAME name... as the Son. Even so, the admonition was not to baptise them in the name of the Father... and [the name] of the Son... and [the name] of the Holy Spirit. Paul did what that Son and Spirit directed ALL of us to do regarding this:

    "Baptise them... in the name of the Father... INTO the Son... IN holy spirit."

    Which, according to the account, is EXACTLY what Paul DID. He didn't baptize them into the Son's NAME... he baptized them... into the SON. Into his death, his resurrection... and his Body.

    Like many others, you are taking the words in the Bible literally. As a result, you are assuming the words "holy spirit" were capitalized, so as to depict the Holy Spirit. They were not... and did not. But you don't have to take my word for you: you can always ask that One himself... yourself.

    As always, I bid you peace!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

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