Does The Name Really Matter?

by AGuest 189 Replies latest jw friends

believingxjw

Hello SA,
I marvel at this thread. As JWs the Society drummed into our heads that those taking the lead in the Watchtower were led by God. For me it was first Knorr and Fred Franz then came the "new" Governing Body, the ones who claimed to teach us the "truth" as they were guided by God.
Now, SA, you claim to be guided by God's Son, similar to the Watchtower's claim of being the FDS. You write your messages from the Son of God on a discussion board they wrote theirs in magazine articles. You say, "Which, please forgive me for saying this, causes ME to have to QUESTION your profession of HAVING such an anointing!", the Watchtower for many years also wrote that those who were claiming to be of anointed but did not fit into the Watchtower's view of the anointed were likey very mistaken in their belief.
Have you become the new FDS? You will likely say, no, but in word you are claiming such. The problem of course is that neither the GB nor you can prove your anointing and appointment as Paul or Peter and the other early disciples were able to do. Taking the word of the Governing Body was a mistake. How can taking your word be any different?
We must follow God only, his Son only and our conscience only. Not man's and not yours.
I say this with respect, with no malice, only love for a fellow traveler in Christ.
AGuest

Hello SA,
Greetings, dear BXJW... and the greatest of love and peace to you!
I marvel at this thread. As JWs the Society drummed into our heads that those taking the lead in the Watchtower were led by God. For me it was first Knorr and Fred Franz then came the "new" Governing Body, the ones who claimed to teach us the "truth" as they were guided by God.
Okay...
Now, SA, you claim to be guided by God's Son...
Yes...
, similar to the Watchtower's claim of being the FDS.
Uh, no. Not at all. Not by a stretch. No similarity whatsoever. They acknowledged (well, until recently) that they were NOT led by the Holy Spirit... and they STILL don't claim that my Lord speaks to them. THEY claim that such a voice belongs to "demons."
You write your messages from the Son of God on a discussion board
Yes... which, unlike with them... you are free to take or leave. But since my Lord, when asking Peter if that one loved him, directed Peter, who said he did, to "feed my sheep"... and since several wrote down what THEY heard or saw or knew or was given by the Holy Spirit... I can't see the problem.
they wrote theirs in magazine articles.
Which they sold and made quite a tidy profit from... such that now they have vast real estate holdings that make them among the richest... ummmmm... "christians" in the world... though I don't know how that can be... because my Lord is recorded to have said, "You received free, you give free"... and so I don't charge for what I share... certainly not this... but give free, just as my Lord directed... even to strangers, including those like you... but I also give literally of my own "unrighteous riches"... including to absolute strangers...
And I ALWAYS give the glory to God and/or Christ, because none of it is MINE...
So, again, I can't where there is a problem...
You say, "Which, please forgive me for saying this, causes ME to have to QUESTION your profession of HAVING such an anointing!"
Well, I was being honest! I DO! Aren't we SUPPOSED to... because "many false christs and false prophets will arise to mislead, if possible, EVEN the chosen ones?" Or are you suggesting that just because one SAYS they are... means I should BELIEVE they are? Well, I do give everyone the benefit of the doubt. It is only when they say/do things that are contrary to the Holy Spirit... that I begin to question. Because if they are... and they are LED by that Spirit... they WOULDN'T do/say things contrary to what he says/says to do... would they??
, the Watchtower for many years also wrote that those who were claiming to be of anointed but did not fit into the Watchtower's view of the anointed were likey very mistaken in their belief
They also say the Most Holy One of Israel is not part of a Trinity. And I agree, His is not. Doesn't mean I am one of them, though, does it?
Have you become the new FDS?
The "new" FDS? I am neither the new... or the old, dear one. I am merely his servant... and yours.
You will likely say, no, but in word you are claiming such.
The truth is, I am not... but that you perceive I am because you had some trouble with MY truth that I openly shared.
The problem of course is that neither the GB nor you can prove your anointing and appointment...
Actually, that's not true. They can't... because they aren't. I can. Problem is, you would have me prove in the exact same WAYS and MANNERS as did Paul and Peter (and you left out John who, along with Peter, healed a lame man). But you forget, there are many "gifts" of the spirit... including hearing/discerning spirits... which I "prove" to you, here, virtually every day. I TELL you who it is that speaks to me, that I hear... and that One IS a spirit. I have also cast out two demons... translated tongues... and recently, even been able to read... and minimally speak... a tongue that I previously had absolutely NO knowledge of. ALL of which I do by means of holy spirit... through the anointing I received from him... which I openly profess. I don't even hide who I am.
as Paul or Peter and the other early disciples were able to do.
Ah, so that is what it would take for YOU? Me healing someone or resurrecting them from the dead? Well, unfortunately, neither of those are gifts that I possess, the reason for which I discussed here a few weeks ago. That you only accept those two as "evidence," however... in spite of the many OTHER gifts that the God grants through holy spirit... takes me back to my "question" that was the impetus for this interchange: how can that BE??
Taking the word of the Governing Body was a mistake. How can taking your word be any different?
Oh, wait... I am NOT asking YOU... or ANYONE... to take MY word... for ANYTHING. THAT discussion has been had and done. It is posted here so many times, I cannot count.
We must follow God only, his Son only and our conscience only. Not man's and not yours.
Ummmm... which is the foundation of my message. Which is why I marvel at those who DO put their faith in the Bible... rather than in God... and His Son... ONLY. As for the conscience... I personally would take care there. Because one's own conscience can be misleading, too. The only thing that I have come to know to be INFALLIBLE... is the Voice of the Fine Shepherd, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... who is the Son and Christ of the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies. And although I do share what that One says to ME... it is NOT so that you will listen to ME... but to him. If you have the faith to do so. If not, that is not my fault - I am sharing with you what he says to me... which is really all I can do... other than to tell you to go to HIM... which I DO.
I say this with respect, with no malice, only love for a fellow traveler in Christ.
I absolutely understand and believe you respectful intent... and accept your love. I return them all, as well as my wish for the peace of Christ for you and your household.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
believingxjw

SA,
"But you forget, there are many "gifts" of the spirit... including hearing/discerning spirits... which I "prove" to you, here, virtually every day."
How do you prove you are hearing spirits here?
"I have also cast out two demons... translated tongues... and recently, even been able to read... and minimally speak... a tongue that I previously had absolutely NO knowledge of. "
And all of these things you have done here on JWN? What proof do you have?
Suppose a new poster comes along on this forum and claims that he hears the Son of God and that only he, as the one who hears, knows how to pronounce the Son's name and that God's Son has told him you are wrong and you do not speak for God's Son. That would be an interesting thread would it not but in the end it would be all about you and him and not about the Christ.
notverylikely

Well, I would not dispute what your "lord" told you here, except to say... sometimes.
Peace, Dear Shelby. My Lord instructed me to tell that if you say you are not going to do something and then do it, you are telling an untruthitude and a falsity. He also told me it was OK to use made up words like like truthitude and falsity.
I would say, however, that YOU are wrong in considering me "completely mistaken."
Truly it is not I, Shelby, that considers you that. It is your Lord speaking to me trying to correct your hardness of hearing.
See, you not only misunderstood what I stated, but who I was stating it about. You took it as directed at you... which it absolutely was NOT... but at those who even took exception with YOUR comments. Now, why IS that? What did you take my comments as to having anything negative to do with YOU... versus actually trying to DEFEND our discussions to those who "can't handle" them?
Shelby, Peace unto you and all who go in your household. Truly it was not I that took offense, but my Lord realizing that you were falling into the trap of hubris and overreaching beyond what you could know. He reached out to me to correct your path before you realized you had made a misstep. My lord has arrayed me in the armor of the holy spirit and any words that could cause offense act as if I am rubber and you are glue.
Tuly this is not about me but the message my Lord is asking me to deliver.
But to respond to your statement... I wasn't wrong; you misunderstood... and so, once again, misstate what I DID state and mean.
The holy spirit is telling me differently. Peace unto you. Truly. I am but a humble servant typing the words I am told to type.
Hmmm, well. My Lord is actually more of a wine drinker (well, he was, but he hasn't partaken from the product of the vine in some time, now. He promises to do so again, however, so I'm looking forward to that.
Of course. That is why he is drinking beer now.
Because you don't appear to understand a good deal of what I share here, which I assume means "he" doesn't, either. But so long as YOU two see eye to eye...
My lord instructs to me say that we, both he and I understand it, it's just wrong and to for me to help correct you since you are hearing him incorrectly.
Well, see, that's the difference between YOUR "lord"... and mine. The word of MY Lord... is that he is not "American"... and simply because "Americans" wish to lay claim to him... doesn't mean they're right ABOUT him... that indeed, MOST of what they BELIEVE about him (including, for some, that he actually has/had blonde hair and blue eyes, is/was tall and strapping, was perfect in the flesh, and called upon a God named "LORD" or "Jehovah")... is totally false.
My dear Shelby, the Lord instructs me to tell you that I wasn't talking about any of that and it was foolish of you to bring it up. He instructs me to tell you that I was simply discussing the absolute silliness of using a modern American spelling using a relatively new letter to get to an older Engish pronunciation of an older Lating name of an older greek word for an older hebrew word based on an older semitic alphabet and then to try to claim that is somehow the "correct" spelling.
He also instruct me to remind to to not muddy the waters by talking about American beliefs about the physical appearance of him since that wasn't under discussion.
Tell him, please, that no double standard was displayed, that indeed, once again, you obviously didn't read everything and so, once again, have misunderstood... and misstated... what occurred... AND... that, thus far, the only One sent to "educate" ME... has been the Holy Spirit... by means of the anointing he has given me and is in me. Tell him, please, that if he wasn't FALSE... he would know this... and thus, so would you.
He says you are wrong, that you accepted Inkie's words and face value and stated you didn't know thier credentials and rejected Leolias well documented and researched words (that included citations and references) and clearly pointed out where you went off track. He also suggested you look up "double standard" and meditate on this and the hubris you display by presuming I am not reading.
Please, dear Shelby, the Lord wants you back, NEEDS you back, he asks you, no,. begs you you soften your heart and stop the false humility and understand that you misunderstand him and sometimes think you are hearing our Lord when you are really hearing your own desires.
Ummmm... YOUR "lord" doesn't exist. Right? I mean, you yourself have said so for, what, months now. And MY Lord's blessings... as to ME... are NEVER ignored. I totally receive them. In fact, I even try to SHARE them... even with you.
It is typical of those that need correcting to attempt to blame the messenger. I will pray for you. I am but a humble messenger.
I don't believe your "lord" knows what he's talking about, dear one... and thus, neither do you. But I'm sure it all SOUNDS good... to you... and perhaps a few others. Even if they're lies. Ah, well...
Truly, I thought the same about you for a long time. I have seen the light.
Peace, dear Shelby.
donuthole

@believingxjw
Discernment of spirits is not simply hearing spirits it is the spiritual ability to judge and differentiate (discern) between the Holy Spirit and unclean/deceiving spirits, even when such claim to be the voice of Jesus, Michael, Jaheshua, Jehovah, or whatever. This is one reason encouragement was given to test the spirits to see if they are from god because many false spirits speaking through false prophets have gone out into the world.
Spiritual gifts are real but they are not for boasting or for self-promotion in some misguided, fleshly attempt to prove oneself to others. Jesus repeatedly refused to engage in such spectacle when the enemy and others tried to get him to prove himself.
AGuest

How do you prove you are hearing spirits here?
By telling you, truthfully, dear BXJW (peace to you!)... what one of them... the Holy One of Israel, who is the Holy Spirit... says to me. And sometimes to me for others. I don't hide who he is... or who I am. Because I have nothing TO hide.
And all of these things you have done here on JWN?
The first two, no. The third, yes.
What proof do you have?
The thread?
Suppose a new poster comes along on this forum and claims that he hears the Son of God and that only he, as the one who hears, knows how to pronounce the Son's name and that God's Son has told him you are wrong and you do not speak for God's Son. That would be an interesting thread would it not...
Maybe. Depends. I would simply ask my Lord, "Is this poster your servant, Lord, and is what saying true?"... and based on what HE told me, go from there. If he said the poster was genuine, that he was indeed my Lord's servant and that what he shared was indeed true and came from my Lord... then who the heck would I be to argue? Who would I be to judge HIS house servant? If my said the poster was not, then I would tell the poster that he was not who he claimed to be, but an imposter. Could be, however, that I wouldn't even need to ask my Lord - if what the poster stated WAS true... and I was in union WITH the Truth... I really shouldn't have a problem with him. True, I might need to check what I think I know... but I would have no problem doing that. Truth... is truth. I don't really care WHO my Lord uses to share it - I would just be glad he shared it.
but in the end it would be all about you and him and not about the Christ.
That, too, depends. If he came in his own name, then, yep, it might just be all about me and him. If, however, he said he was indeed sent... or indeed heard my Lord's voice and was only relating what he was given to relate... or sharing what he heard... and my Lord confirmed this (and there is absolutely NO reason why he wouldn't)... it would not be about me and him, at all, but about ME... and CHRIST. How so? Because of my Lord's words that:
"Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God who sent me."
So, I... ME... would check. Because while I certainly don't want to be misled, I also don't want to reject the Holy Spirit... simply because of MY hard-headedness, hard-heartedness, stiff-neck... and/or lack of faith!
I know, of course, that there are MANY false christs and false prophets. So, as some have said, I can "test" the inspired expression... because not all INSPIRED expressions originate with God. How do I test? By asking the Holy Spirit first, of course. Since MY faith allows me to hear him... I probably don't need to go any further than that. If, however, for some reason my faith was lacking... I should test it... against love. If that still didn't work... I could try to find it in writing. But my experience has been, for some time now, that I need not go past the first two tests, indeed, not past the first.
The bottom line, however, is that such one shouldn't be concerned with what I think of him... and wouldn't be... if he truly WERE sent... and/or hearing. Because he would know that he had to obey God... rather than man, who always tries to silence those who speak by means of holy spirit and the anointing they received FROM the Holy Spirit. From Abel... who was silenced by his own brother, Cain... until today. Absolutely nothing new under the sun. But if he is telling the truth, he won't be concerned because he KNOWS... that he couldn't be quiet if he wanted to. None that came before him could, some to the detriment of their own lives... including the Son himself... nor those who may come after him.
He would know that a slave is not greater than his master... that his master also said things that caused people to weep and gnash their teeth... that indeed, he confronted the very sons of Abraham, Israel, who were God's CHOSEN people... how DARE he... to their very faces! He would know that the prophets and disciples before him did the same and were received in the very same way by some who considered themselves "chosen"... and so refused to receive them... because what they had to say were things never heard before (and isn't that how it's ALWAYS been??).
He would know, however, that if ones don't receive him... it is of no consequence to HIM... that is not ABOUT him... or between them and him... and he has only to shake the dust off HIS feet... and so he would never try to MAKE anyone listen to him. He would simply share what he was given/told to share... whether I... or others... listened... or not.
He would, however, speak the truth... even when it might cost him his friends, his loved ones, his possessions, his livelihood... even his life. Because he would know that nothing is more important. Not father, mother, sister, child, job, friends... even his own life. Because he would know that his life doesn't belong to him... but to the One who purchased it with HIS blood... and so, if THAT One said, "Go, speak to the House of Israel, and tell them..." or "Go, say to this one 'the Master has said'..." or "Listen, child, and I will tell you..." he would go. He would listen. Without hesitation. And without fear. Regardless of what others may think... or say.
NOT because he thought he was something... but because of his LOVE for that One... the One who gave HIS life... which would mean more to him than his own life.
I hope I've answered your question, dear BXJW. I did so honestly... and sincerely.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
ziddina

AGuest, what the heck you doin' up so late??? Must be past midnight where you are???
(Dancin' nekkid in the moonlight??? Lemme get my coven!!! )
AGuest

Peace, Dear Shelby. My Lord instructed me to tell that if you say you are not going to do something and then do it, you are telling an untruthitude and a falsity. He also told me it was OK to use made up words like like truthitude and falsity.
Greetings, NVL. Although I had a feeling of forboding, I read your post. I had written most of the following before I got to the gist of your post. I wanted to delete it but my Lord said to let it stand... for others who might wish it. At some point, I came upon your blasphemy, however, and just couldn't go further (no, I don't usually read ahead, but simply copy the post and then respond as I read). So, this will be the post.
Initially, my Lord has directed me to share the following with you, in response to your statement above:
"... when the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was near, [Jesus'] brothers said to him, 'You ought to leave here and go to Judea, so that your disciples may see the miracles you do. No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.' For even his own brothers did not believe in him. Therefore [Jesus] told them, 'The right time for me has not yet come; for you any time is right. The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil. You go to the Feast. I am not going up to this Feast, because for me the right time has not yet come.' Having said this, he stayed in Galilee. However, after his brothers had left for the Feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.
"Now at the Feast the Jews were watching for him and asking, 'Where is that man?' Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, 'He is a good man.' Others replied, 'No, he deceives the people.' But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the Jews. Not until halfway through the Feast did [Jesus] go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. The Jews were amazed and asked, 'How did this man get such learning without having studied?' [Jesus] answered, 'My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.'"
He said I should exhort you to continue reading the entire account.
In response to my statement that, "YOU are wrong in considering me "completely mistaken," you state:
Truly it is not I, Shelby, that considers you that. It is your Lord speaking to me trying to correct your hardness of hearing.
Please, dear NVL... do not blaspheme. Please.
Truly it was not I that took offense, but my Lord realizing that you were falling into the trap of hubris and overreaching beyond what you could know. He reached out to me to correct your path before you realized you had made a misstep. My lord has arrayed me in the armor of the holy spirit and any words that could cause offense act as if I am rubber and you are glue.
Think about what you're saying... and doing, dear NVL. Unless you really mean YOUR "lord,"... which is not what you stated above...
Tuly this is not about me but the message my Lord is asking me to deliver.
Okay, so we're back to YOUR "lord." Unfortunately, I don't know your lord, so listening to him is very unlikely...
The holy spirit is telling me differently.
Aww, dang... you had to go there...
Peace unto you. Truly. I am but a humble servant typing the words I am told to type.
Actually, you're a liar (no offense; I am only stating the truth)... and a blasphemer. Why?? Why do you people DO it? Because you're mad at ME?? Is that really cause to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit? You wish to test me? Then test me. But why blaspheme against HIM?? Sigh. You just don't get it... truly. Some of you really need to stop drinking. Because that [bad] 'spirit' is ultimately going to cost YOU... YOUR eternal spirit...
Of course. That is why he is drinking beer now.
I knew it (shaking head). Even before I read it. Dang, NVL... and I was starting to like you [again]...
But... no need to read further. It's too painful. This SO sad for me, truly. You think you're harming me... getting to me... pushing me to be quiet... and nothing could be further from the truth. I have told you, truthfully, that these things aren't mine. But you are SO dead set, SO convinced that this really couldn't be happening to me... because it isn't happening to you. And so... you sin. Not just with your tongue... but with your heart. Not against me... but against the Holy Spirit. Why, dear NVL??? Because you have issues with ME?? Why couldn't you have just had your issues with ME, then? Why go SO far... as to blaspheme? What did you hope to accomplish, truly?
Enough. It is enough. Our interchanges have gone too far. You think you're being funny, clever. You're being stupid. Very. And I no longer want any part of it. Say what you will about me. THINK what you will. It doesn't matter to me. What matters is when you blaspheme. Because I become very afraid for those who do. I see what will occur with you... I SEE it. And I hate it. No, God will not punish you; He is merciful. YOU will punish you. Indeed, you have already started. Your conscience will never be the same. You can pretend all you want... and post about how "happy" your life is. You probably should... for the little time of happiness you have left. Because you have no idea of the bitterness you will know later. Judas was not hung by God, NVL - he tried to hang himself. There was a reason why.
(Shaking head)... We're done.
A slave of Christ,
SA
AGuest

AGuest, what the heck you doin' up so late??? Must be past midnight where you are???
I had a large iced tea, today, dear Zid. Tomorrow's Saturday, so no worries.
Peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
cameo-d

Aguest: He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself,
He said I should exhort you to continue reading the entire account.
Sounds like this could have been a personal message directly meant for you yourself.

Does The Name Really Matter?

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