John Walker

by mike047 61 Replies latest jw friends

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  mike047

  MORNING ALL;

  GWEEDO; Thanks for the information on David Hicks. I was unaware of him and his suspected involment.

  ASHI; You mentioned Manson being brainwashed by acid. This, I feel, is incorrect. Acid/LSD produces halucinations and ruins the circuits in the brain. I know,I am living proof of this. Acid may have been a significant part in his unusual reasoning but not brainwashing.

  I came up with a few names from the Viet Nam era that had problems similar to Walker/Hicks. These people's situations are not to be contrued as my support or condemnation for any ones actions. The are just their situation as reported. They are;
  Bobby Garwood
  Sgt. Jon M. Sweeney
  Ltc. Edison Miller
• 

  nowaytess

  He was there during the uprising. that fact has been out for a while now.

  Seeker, just to answer your question, most YOung people Johnnie's age don't travel around the world and live in other countires unless theri parents are very weathly. It is not cheap to live over sears unless there is an American money coming in to exchance at the higher local currenty rate.

  The parents actions speak louder than their words. Whether Liberal or Conservative, you must take a hard look at how he was raised.

  Paretns who have not set up many boundries for their children experence such a consequence. I wonder why a child of such Loving and Ultra-Liberal parents seek out such a ridgid form of Muslimism? Johnnie was looking for the love he was not getting from his parents. He was looking for definition and his boundries.

  I remeber when i was his age my faterh just died and had 4 minor children and a sick mother to support.

  <A HREF= http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/christianexjehovahswitnesses </A>
• 

  Seeker

  Seeker, just to answer your question, most YOung people Johnnie's age don't travel around the world and live in other countires unless theri parents are very weathly. It is not cheap to live over sears unless there is an American money coming in to exchance at the higher local currenty rate.

  I don't know that I can agree with that. It seems routine for college-aged kids to spend time in Europse, and that's even more expesive. Living on the cheap is a college traiditon. And if he went to these Muslim countries, that dirt-cheap.

  I don't know about his parents. They might very well be too permissive. Not sure what that has to do with anything, to be honest, nor why so many people are mad at them. I think it's the old taking sides thing. People choose a side and then can't stand it when everyone doesn't agree with them. Right now, Bush has childishly said, "If you're not for us, you're against us," which set up a overly simplified choice. People waving the flag get very upset if someone disagrees with everything they say, for it underminds their simplified beliefs (we're good, they're bad). So someone like Walker comes along and they get as apoplectic as a fundy who was just told their idea of God is not as black-and-white as they think.

  In any case, I have no objection to the guilty being punished, and maybe Walker will be just that guilty. My whole point had to do with those who were calling for his torture and execution before they knew all the facts. I'm someone who feels you have to hear all sides of an issue before you can intelligently decide a matter. I've had enough of the WTS approach where you only listen to the side that tickles your ears with what you already believe. Let's get all the facts and then we can decide whose head to chop off. That was my point, not that Walker is guilty, or isn't guilty, but that we can't know for sure at this point.

  I suppose if Walker's parents turn out to have been too permissive, we'll see calls for them to be tortured too. Buf if permissiveness is to be punished, half the parents in the United States are in big trouble.
• 

  Simon

  I think the US has made a huge mistake / miscalculation in treating Walker differently to the others accused of the same crime.

  There are many different nationals in cuba including some british (s'ok, we don't want them back) facing closed military court and a possible death sentance and Walker should be there with them. If not, then it looks incredibly unjust.

  I can understand the reasons for not having 'proper' trials for everyone as frankly, the legal system is not cut out for this sort of stuff and it would just be pouring money into lawyers pockets for years and years.

  How much has the Lockerbie trials cost, how long have they taken and what was the outcome?

  What about Milosovick - how long will that go on for and how long will that take?

  There are people in the UK facing extradition to the US on terrorist charges in connection with Sept 11 and it is expected that the legal appeals etc... will cost us tax payers at least £3m.

  I don't want to pay it. Why should nice people always loose?

  They made a definite choice and should live with the consequences.

  Being cynical though I believe that Walker will be used as a media distraction to keep attention away from the Bush's involvement with Enron and other scandals (BCCI anyone?).

  Oh, have to go ... two men in black suits, sunglasses and their right fingers in their ear are at the door ...
• 

  nowaytess

  I like to know where your colege age kids lives? It is not the norm for most to hop knob in ohter countries unless they are very wealthy or have a source of it. Sorry, most kids in colege can't even pay their basic schooling expencses and if live off campus, their living ones. Most college kids work a full or part time employment.

  I don't know all the facts yet, for htey have not been presented for trail. From what I have seen , he looks very guilty. Even more guilty than OJ.

  I feel the just puinishment for Johnnie is banisment with his citizen being stripped. It would serve the purpose.

  After the extremeist in the Arab-Muslim world whim he been dealing with gets though with him, he would be better off dead. I can just see him over in Afghanistan 10 years later, know ing he made a big mistake. If johnnie crosses these guys, going to jail over there will be an experience of a lifetime. Most likely he will be dead.

  Johnnie is better off in this country serving life in prison. 3 squares, tv, vistors, etc will beat jail in a Arab-Muslim nation anyday.

  <A HREF= http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/christianexjehovahswitnesses </A>
• 

  plmkrzy

  I'm not agreeing or disagreeing either way about johnnys
  guilt or stupidity but this has always seemed to me to be
  getting an incredible amount of attention. I mean there's
  no balance. Why so much media attention on Johnny. What about
  all the other people who were found with evidence of being
  directly involved in the conspiericy to use planes for bombs?
  Many people were arrested from the get go for thier involvement.
  But instead the whole country is now focusing on this American
  kid who ran off to join the "Freedom Fighters" NOT and fight
  for some cause. This kid is probably no doubt guilty of going over there to fight for some imaginary cause and should be punished for it but however it turns out I doubt very seriously that he will be proven guilty of contributing to a conspiericy or being encluded among the others involved with the YEARS of planning this. He was
  an American upper middle class kid. One of the very things they Hate and want to distroy. Were giving more attention to this stupid kid then we are the actual enemies. The ones who started it in the first place.
  And then there is Bush. What happened to all that money, billions, raised for the victims? Many are still waiting for some relief. And, wasn't there a major corp. Money market, went belly up da da da that thousands of people lost everything they had investing in it? Who remarkably was able to buy off thier debt? The same co. that intrestingly funded a big portion of Bushes campaign? Maybe there's nothing to it and maybe there is. The thing is these are all big players involved with world events playing with big stakes and a lot of major stuff has happened the past several months and then right in the middle of it all is this dumb kid named Johnny from high school. Something is definately wrong with this pitcure.[:?]
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  Seeker

  The thing is these are all big players involved with world events playing with big stakes and a lot of major stuff has happened the past several months and then right in the middle of it all is this dumb kid named Johnny from high school. Something is definately wrong with this pitcure.[:?]

  As I'm sure you know, this is just the way the corporations that control the media like it. They would rather the American people not focus on things that could cause them to questioni the status quo. So the media instead tends to hop from one 'big' story to another, flogging it to death, while ignoring the important stories that tell the real situation. Celebrity stories are big (Condit, OJ), as are patriotic stories (traitor Walker). Anything to distract the American people from what really happens.
• 

  Seeker

  I like to know where your colege age kids lives? It is not the norm for most to hop knob in ohter countries unless they are very wealthy or have a source of it.

  Or are basically middle class and live on the cheap, as I said earlier. If you go to Europe, who do you find? A bunch of middle-aged, fat American tourists, Bethelites, and college kids.

  I feel the just puinishment for Johnnie is banisment with his citizen being stripped. It would serve the purpose.

  I would agree with that. If he really did deliberately fight against the U.S., I think it's appropriate to say fine, you made your choice, now you cannot be a U.S. citizen any more.

  After the extremeist in the Arab-Muslim world whim he been dealing with gets though with him, he would be better off dead. I can just see him over in Afghanistan 10 years later, know ing he made a big mistake. If johnnie crosses these guys, going to jail over there will be an experience of a lifetime. Most likely he will be dead.

  Propaganda.

  Johnnie is better off in this country serving life in prison. 3 squares, tv, vistors, etc will beat jail in a Arab-Muslim nation anyday.

  Conservative propaganda. That old lie about how soft our prisons are is conservative nonsense. Jail is bad, no matter the conditions. Given Walker's notoriety, he'll be killed quickly while in prison. Or else raped daily. Yeah, 3 squares and a rape a day. How easy life will be for this kid in the decadent, ultra-liberal USA.
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  nowaytess

  Ok,

  Just one question if you are to be in Jail where would you like to be in prison in the USA or n an Arab-Muslim nation?

  I think I 'll ask my brother about the time he was in prision in Turkey and when he was in prision in the US. I know what his answer is going to be and his answer won't be swayed by propeganda.

  YOu must remember Johnnie lived 2 years plus in Yeman and afghanistian. Even most middle class US citizen could not live ther very long with out having a decent job and a source of income. He had to have a source of foregin income. I don't think Yemen wages for his skills could keep him there ling enough.

  <A HREF= http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/christianexjehovahswitnesses </A>
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  Seeker

  Just one question if you are to be in Jail where would you like to be in prison in the USA or n an Arab-Muslim nation?

  Oh, the USA, absolutely. But that's why what you said was propaganda, for you took the above question then implied how soft it is in US prisons. US prisons may be better, but both experiences are awful. Neither one is a country club in any sense of the word. Only white collar criminals get that treatment, and Walker ain't that.

  As for living in Yemen and Afghanistan, how much money do you think it takes to live there? It's dirt-cheap! And don't forget, he went there to be trained, so his expenses were probably being covered by his trainers. You know how JWs love to brag how they will take care of their own when visiting around the world? Well, I'm sure Muslims do the same thing, and the Muslims over there were probably only too happy to care for this American who showed such genuine interest in his Islamic studies. And since his parents had no idea where he was, they clearly weren't supporting him financially. He must have made his own way or depended on the charity of his Muslim brethren.