A Sincere Question...

by AGuest 44 Replies latest jw friends

AGuest

To the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... may you have peace!
I have a very sincere question to ask because of some recent comments I've received regarding postings on the board. The subject is on my mind... and heart... because of two similar incidents that occurred in MY life since my journey began, which I would like to relate to you.
The first occurred with some dear ones (and if you are reading this, please, please do not take offense; I am only trying to make a point) about 12-13 years ago. I was visiting them and having a discussion... about what I no longer remember. During the discussion, I mentioned "something, something... when we drove by the quarry." Well, these dear ones got quite upset with me! They actually raised their voices at me, asking, "The what??!! The quarry???!! What is a "quarry" and why do you always have to use "big" words?"
I was totally taken aback as I never considered "quarry" to be a "big" word. I mean, it's where Fred Flintstone worked! These, however, had been raised in VERY isolated JW conditions: very little contact with the outside world (they live(d) in a very small hamlet), and watched virtually no television during their lives up until that time. Prior to, their lives were deeply entrenched in the Organization... and their local congregation. They will tell you today... they were considered "pillars". Still, it never occurred to me that "quarry" would be an offensive word.
So, I asked them, "What do YOU call it?" After hesitating for some time, one of them sputtered out, "Well, it's... it's... we call it a ROCK PIT!"
Ummmm... okay.
Now, see, MY way of thinking is that "rock pit" describes what a "quarry" IS... but is not the NAME of it. And so I tried to explain that. But one of them next said to me, "Well, you're always using big words, like you're talking down to us!" I was totally flabbergasted. Because, you see, to ME... I would have thought that to assume they DIDN'T know it was quarry... and so, call it a "rock pit" because, well, of course they DON'T know big words... including a "big" one like "quarry" (which was a COMMON word to ME)... would have actually been what they were accusing me off. To ME... that would have been talking DOWN to them... rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt that they indeed knew what a "quarry" was. Again, to ME, it was a very common word.
Well, we talked it out, of course, and came to see each other's point of view. Funny thing is, though, one of them went back to school a few years later and got his GED and AA. Before he graduated from JC, however (actually after a only few months after he started), he came to me and said he owed me an apology. When I asked him why he said: "Because, since I've been going to school, I've learned that a LOT of the words you use... are actually common words, words used by people... EVERY DAY. I just didn't know this... because I was so sheltered. I am so sorry that we put you through that." Of course, there was no need to apologize.
The second, similar, incident occurred when my husband and I were out to dinner with relatives. The four of us were laughing and enjoying conversation... until the subject turned to the NRA... which had been prominent in the news over the past few weeks. It was something all over the news and many were discussing at work, etc.. The husband of other couple, therefore, had a lot to say and my husband and I were able to keep up with him. We were involved in quite an enjoyable interchange when the wife interjected... and angrily so. NOT that she didn't like the subject... but apparently, she didn't know anything about it and was offended that she couldn't participate in the discussion. So, we had to find a common subject that we all could participate in. It turned out to be... the remodeling of her house. She could discuss THAT in great detail and so, from her perspective, it was a more appropriate subject. Now, mind you... none of us other three thought the NRA was inappropriate because it had been prominent in the news. So, we were actually chagrined... and my husband and I were a little embarassed for her husband... because she kind of berated HIM (well, I think she meant to berate us all, but)... in front of US... over such a thing.
I personally couldn't fathom it. I would never do that to my husband, even if it wasn't something I knew about. I would either have waited patiently for the subject to change, kindly changed it with a somewhat related segue, or let them finish it... while finishing my wine. But I wouldn't have gotten my chonies in a bunch because I didn't know what was going on. And I certainly wouldn't have berated my husband in public. But then, that's me.
Anyway, I bring these up and wish to ask my question because I truly don't get it. Perhaps I should... but I don't. Prior to entering into the WTBTS, my friends (bohemian/hippie-types) and I would discuss... well, everything. From religion to politics to families to work to current events (local, national, global)... and more. But once inside the WTBTS I found my conversation virtually limited to, well, "theocratic" lingo. No matter WHAT the subject was. Sooner or later the words "Society", "FDS," "meetings", "field service," and... well, you know... the usual words... came up. Every conversation either reached that vocabulary... circled around to that vocabularly... referred to something in that vocabulary... or had to consist only OF that vocabulary.
And then... my Lord set me FREE. To love anyone I wanted... and to discuss anything I wanted... with anyone I wanted. I did not know that freedom while I was touching the Borg. But I know it now. Yet... I find that even though I am out of the Borg... and no longer touching her... there are some HERE... who want to bind me, again... to restrict my FREEDOM... and my BOLDNESS... of speech... even though such freedom is written... IN THE BIBLE.
So, my question(s) is/are: do you get offended when someone uses words/phrases... or comments on/discusses something... you are not familiar with? If so, why? Do you feel that if you cannot be a part of a discussion, others are being rude or insensitive? If so, why and/or how so?
Again, I ask in ALL sincerity. I am NOT trying to inflame... or intending to insult, deride, or offend. Like some others I, too, have a "naturally" curious mind and one thing that always intrigues me is why people take offense at what they do. If you feel inclined to respond, by all means, please do. If, however, you do not because you also find THIS post "offensive," please accept my humble and sincere apologies... and feel free to refrain. I will NOT be offended, I promise you.
Again, peace to you all!
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SA
Found Sheep

not to exactly answer your question but it did make me think. When I first got out how hard it was for me to talk. I felt stupid for a while because I didn't know how to have a conversation that didn't revolve around JW crap. When I was IN yes "normal" conversation made me uncomfortable because I was not told what to think about the topic
tec

So, my question(s) is/are: do you get offended when someone uses words/phrases...or comments on/discusses something... you are not familiar with?
No. I read the comments/discussion to learn more, or ask a question (or look it up on google), or move on to another thread. Words/phrases I will do the same with. Most of the time that I don't know what people are talking about is because I'm not up to date on politics, religion or scientific discoveries, etc. In a more private setting I would want to be included, and might feel embarrassed if I didn't know anything about what was being discussed, but there's nothing wrong with listening and learning and keeping one's tongue in check while doing so (except to ask questions).
I think I answered your other question too. Of course, if the others KNOW that someone in their group doesn't understand what's being discussed and they make no effort to include her, or change the topic (knowing she/he would be part of that group) then yes, I would think that this is rude. Not necessarily maliciously so, but still. However, on a forum such as this... there are no such limitations. Seriously, CJ posted stuff on matter and atoms and neurons, etc... I don't think he is rude for doing so, even though it is way out of MY league.
Speak of whatever you wish to speak of, Shelby - and whatever joys you wish to share.
Peace to you,
Tammy
OUTLAW

Hey Shelby..
People get offended at all kinds of things..Not "Dumbing Down" for them,is were I draw a line..
We were expected to be Idiots in the WBT$..
That doesn`t work in the Real World,nor should it..
I won`t "Suffer a Fool"..No one should..
............................ ...OUTLAW
OUTLAW

I Pity the Fool..
Who Suffers a Fool!!..

............................ ...OUTLAW
moshe

I mentioned "something, something... when we drove by the quarry.
You need to talk in the vernacular of the locals- you weren't riding in a BMW were you? Pay more attention!
AGuest

You need to talk in the vernacular of the locals
Which would have been what, dear Moshe (peace to you!)? "Rock pit"? But how would I have known that? Why would I have assumed that that was the "vernacular" of the locals?
- you weren't riding in a BMW were you?
Let's see... at the time... ummm, no. Would that have made a difference (I ask, because these particular "locals" have a MUCH larger house, had a MUCH newer car, well, actually a brand new Yukon, own[ed] their own business and, again, were "pillars")?
Pay more attention!
Well, okay! In fact, I already DO! Every time I pass a quarry NOW... I tell my husband, "Hey, hon, there's a rock pit!" Even if it says "ABC Quarry" right on the monument sign! So, there!
Peace!!
A slave of Christ,
SA
wasblind

1 Corinthians 9:22-23
Paul is saying that when it comes to being able to help others know and follow Jesus, then we must be ready and able to fit in with them in their culture.
I know you weren't tryin' to preach to anyone in your post about Jesus
but this post just reminded me of that scripture
journey-on

Good evening, Shelby.
As for the first incident, how can anyone consider a 2-syllable word a big word?! Your statement, "Now, see, MY way of thinking is that "rock pit" describes what a "quarry" IS... but is not the NAME of it", made me think of other things we tend to do this to. (I can think of many.)
I think one should be considerate of the company they're in, especially if it's an intimate group, and be aware of a possible overuse of overly complex terminology. But on an internet discussion board, be yourself!! Write/speak the way you want to and are used to. Your discussion is read by many people with varying levels of education and understanding. So stay true to who you are.
In the second incident, I'm a little bit on her side, though not completely. As long as the conversation you and the two men were engaged in wasn't filling up the entire evening, she should just wait it out. However, after a good length of time had passed, she, imo, would have every right to interject with a light-hearted "let's change the subject, shall we?"
Education Education Education! People should NEVER stop trying to learn and expand their knowledge base!
cyberjesus

Ok my dear co-worker-in-spirit ex-sister-in-the-slavement-of-human-beings-to-Christ-our-savior-(wellnotmineanymore)Son-of God.
A slave now of th USA,
What is the purpose of language? to communicate. right? to be understood. is not just to express yourself, for that we use poetry. We need to make our point the fastest the most clear the most effective way we are able. If you speak and nobody gets it or get bored or offended, we failed as communicators.
To communicate effectively we need to get to point as fast as possible removing any unnecessary information but with as much detailed needed. NEEDED. not wanted.
Words are beautiful and descriptive and I understand your desire to use all the words that you know but if the audience wont get it then you are loosing your breath and your audience. Get to the point. Be short. If you are not understood add more description and more detail but only as needed.
Let me give you an example, in your thread you say : A Sincere Question... and then it took you 3 minutes to get to the point. 180 seconds. to be honest after the first 20 seconds I was lost already and skip skip skip until i found your question.
Dont tell me what you are gonna tell me next, this is not a talk, just say it. IF your words are too complicated for your audience.... they are too complicated for your audience. The friends in your example actually were interested in what you had to say thats why they asked. Most people would not ask they would just nod their heads and say yes to everything.
When I teach a class I pick the topic for the most advanced person in the group and explain for the least advanced person, that way you keep the whole audience.
Pick the topic as if I was a University professor but explain it to me as if I was seven years old.
Hope it helps.
By the way I answered on the title of the post.

A Sincere Question...

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