by cyberjesus 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
PSacramento ... your photo is causing me to have second thoughts (open mindedness) about ... fence sitters !!! LOL !!
Here is my "evil "(as per cyberjesus ) definition of faith ..
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
I think Caliber stabbed you in the stomach with is sword
No we're having a wonderful open minded discussion without taking personal offense... no stabbing was intended nor did that train of thought enter my mind at any point !!
| We should be too big to take offense and too noble to give it.” | |
| santiz |
Are you open minded about the possibility accepting things on things not seen (faith)
This is a false dilemma, are you implying that if I am not open to the possibility of accepting things on faith I am close minded? or implying that it is possible for people to accept things on faith?
I am not only open minded as to accept that people accept things on faith. You bet, I was one them I accepted things on faith. So yes it is possible. I believe it. Now do I believe things on faith? not anymore. Does that make me close minded? I am open to any idea. but if It has evidence to back it up i will accept it as a reality.
your question is precisely why I posted the video, have you watch it? please do and comment back.
caliber, gladiator is a fighter. he can take hits thats why he is a gladiator. otherwise he would be something else
Are you open minded about the possibility accepting things on faith ?
“The great trouble with religion — any religion — is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. One may bask at the warm fire of faith or choose to live in the bleak uncertainty of reason — but one cannot have both.” –Robert Heinlein
Cyberjesus my answer is (b ) ...implying that it is possible for people to accept things on faith
What I notice most about the video was his calm , reasonable demeanor which is inducing to toward it's acceptance .
He also relates that open mindedness or rather lack thereof is in trying to push others to accept our statements
this is why I like to put ideas or thoughts out there and let other form their own opinions on them... to be vague or subtle
avoids the appearance personal attack so that people don't become defensive and thus allow ego or self pride to rise above the point of discussion
That is why I tried to avoid giving "my " the definition of faith.. it puts people on defense
Thus above when you say... are you" implying" (as above)..you allow people to reason, think and form their own thoughts rather than" being told "
If someone says they are an atheist to me that means they probably thought about the existence of God and
after weighing the evidence have decided there is no God.
To me that is to much like when I was a JW, from birth, there was a time I had weighed the evidence
and decided the JW's were right.
I learned how wrong I can be weighing evidence in matters of faith, God and our existence.
That leaves me to be an agnostic, I can say I dont know, I'm good with that.
I do find comfort reading parts of the bible, saying the lords prayer, saying the serenity prayer.
There are a lot of posibilities, to me it seems very possible scientifically speaking, when it comes to particles molecules and
quantum physics that if you make your mind up that there is no God, you may be sending yourself to an eternity
of darkness, which some have described as hell.
To me it makes more sense if your going to bullshit yourself. Bullshit yourself that there is a loving God who will
take care of all your needs and wants throughout eternity. The bible says a lot of things. I try to keep the good
things it says and dwell and reflect on them. The bible says God doesnt want your sacrafice. God wants you to have
faith in him. The bible also says we are saved by faith.
Faith you cant weigh, quantify or qualify.
I think I have an open mind because I dont want some group or person with a mindset like the Jehovahs witnesses
to do another number on me.
I read Dawkins, DArwin, Sam Harris and the atheist here on JWD. But I also read my bible and at the end of the day delude myself
with faith and give thanks to my God.
A second point for someone like me 58 years old who did not consider the posibility of there being no God until
I was 50, Atheism is a very depressing consideration, probably because the way I wired myself for 50 years reading
the bible. My life is my own experiment but this year I have read Dawkins greatest show on earth and other atheistic
evolutionary books and now I am on anti depressants.
I know the way for me to get off them is to read my bible and not read about atheism or evolution.
So for me to think bad thoughts, there is no God, the bible is not true causes me to be medicated.
And I have gone through this before my cure to get off the medication is to read the bible and believe in God.
Thats my experiece, thats my cross to bear, each man has to work out his own salvation.
So really being agnostic is detrimental to my health, I need to move on over to the believer category based on
my own empirical evidence.
cyberjesus
Are you avoiding confrontation. is that it?
A very astute observation!
caliber
No we're having a wonderful open minded discussion without taking personal offense...
Ah - this is the beginning of wisdom. The portal to an adventure that enjoys the unknown and often unexpected.
I have learned that it is not the swift that win the race or the mighty that win the battle but those who find peace without war.
jaguarbass
So really being agnostic is detrimental to my health, I need to move on over to the believer category based on
my own empirical evidence.
Finding what works for you is a personal responsibility. I am pleased you have found a way that suits your needs.
I am an atheist, recently minted. It took almost four decades of contemplation to get where I am. The answer to your question is best answered with another question. If you have made up your mind about something, what would it take to change it? If nothing will change your mind, it is closed. For me, and I think for most intelligent atheists (there are some, if not many, who subscribe out of rote ignorance, much like some who believe in God without question or analysis), it comes down to evidence, because it is on the basis of evidence or lack thereof they have come to be atheists. There are many, many miracles reported in the Bible, believed without question by the devoted but which we inexplicably don't witness anymore. Show me a miracle, one that cannot be faked, like blood dripping from a statue. A real miracle. If I was to see my parents alive again, I would become a believer in God. And, please, those who are itching to tell me that I need only wait for that to happen, don't bother.
So for me to think bad thoughts, there is no God, the bible is not true causes me to be medicated.
And I have gone through this before my cure to get off the medication is to read the bible and believe in God
This statement IMHO tells you and all of us (nearly all more likely ) that there are whisperings built into in our DNA code
that say ... "I am God your creator".. you can suppress these whisperings but never totally leave them behind !! There is a a spiritual
aspect to life that runs above understandable human logic ..it cannot be defined by human logic
