I think I figured out why Jesus ended up being such an important figure in history! (page 4)

sabastious

I love him, believe in the things he taught

Tammy and Jesus sittin' in a tree...

K I S S I N G!

-Sab

notverylikely

Because there are discrepancies. It doesn't make it true - just makes it seem to me as if it is not a fraud. An actual fraudulent writing would have better planning, it would seem to me, anyway.

I love you tec. Because the writings are incongruent, that means they are true. Comedy gold.

tec

to you too, NVL :)

(I didn't say true, btw... I said 'not fraudulent'... and I do not want to hear a single joke about that sentiment... not one, I tell you)

But really, no one got together and planned out a hoax. If they had, then the accounts should have no discrepancies at all, right? Doesn't that make sense?

Tammy

wobble

I kinda agree Tammy, that the gospels do not come over as a deliberate hoax, what they come over as is Tracts written to perpetuate a movement based on "Jesus".

It could well be that the motive for wanting the movement to grow was political as much as religious, whatever the case, it means that the gospels are not reliable history, or reliable vehicles for the words of Jesus.

What I would dearly love to turn up, would be an authentic record of what Jesus actually said, it is probable that, despite the myth and legend that has grown up around his name, he was a great teacher, but at present we have no way of knowing what he said and taught.

designs

One of the many surprises in studying Judaism was to read of all the Rabbis and Sages who predceeded Jesus by 200 to 500 years who taught the things first that Jesus later spoke of. Kind of flipped everything on its head.

The Nazarene movement got corrupted for social and political power, sadly.

cheerios

i dont know who this jesus person is ... but the evidence clearly points to Wobble as being the most important person in history

PSacramento

If the Gospels were reliable accounts of the life of Christ, what is the basis of the assertion?

There are quite a few books out there about that, with variosu themes.

I can suggest "Jesus and the Victory of God" by NT wright, but itis a long read, over 700 pages.

There are a few out there about the historical reliablity of the gospels too.

Nickolas

Are you angry?

No Tammy, not at all. I respect your perspective even if I do not subscribe to it any longer. If I might use a crass comparison, freeing my mind from the belief that Jesus was devine was something like when I quit smoking, only much more difficult. My body ached for nicotine and my mind was afraid to let go of Jesus - the corollary to "whomever believes in me will be saved" and all that. I still haven't decided that Jesus of Nazareth never existed, because I haven't investigated the evidence, or lack thereof, thoroughly enough, but I no longer see the possibility, if he did exist, that he was more than a man with great charisma. It was a little frightening to come to a conclusion that Christianity is founded on a series of myths, some of them common to other cultures and other religions. Perseus was the son of the god Jupiter after Jupiter visited the virgin Danae as a shower of gold and impregnated her without penetration. Buddha was born through an opening in his mother's side. The virgin Nana laid in her chest a pomegranate soaked in the blood of the slain Agdestris and then gave birth to the god Attis. The virgin Catlicus stuffed a little ball of feathers from the sky into her bosom and conceived the Aztec god Huitzilopochtii. A virgin Mongol princess awoke one night and found herself bathed in a great light and later give birth to Genghis Khan. Krishna was born of the virgin Devaka. Horus was born of the virgin Isis. Mercury was born of the virgin Maia. Romulus was born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia and Jesus was born of the virgin Mary. There are a number of other reported virgin births of deities you need only research to find out about. It appears to me, getting back to the conversation at hand, that the Christian movement was conceived by Saul of Tarsus and was later embellished by others.

tec

I'm glad you're not angry, Nick, and also that you are still investigating.

It was a little frightening to come to a conclusion that Christianity is founded on a series of myths, some of them common to other cultures and other religions.

It was for me as well, though I only entertained it. I ignored those 'comparisons' for so long, until my husband found Zeitgeist and started saying that he was right all along. Then, well, I had to investigate it all. What I found, however, was that most of those comparisons (including virgin births/ although miraculous type births are still present in many myths) were false.

My mind and heart were set at ease, except that I felt bad for having doubted Him to begin with.

Tammy

I think I figured out why Jesus ended up being such an important figure in history!

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