I think I figured out why Jesus ended up being such an important figure in history!

by sabastious 53 Replies latest social humour

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  Nickolas

  many thanks, PSacramento. It seems your references agree with my earlier understanding. I am looking forward to reading them through before continuing my conversation with my wife.

  On your comment about slaughters instigated on religious grounds vs numbers killed during the wars in the last century, one might associate the genocide of the Jews as religion-inspired, but the rest are the consequence of pathological leadership and ambition meeting 20th century technology (which by today's standards is crude). What is concerning is our modern world has a single nuclear superpower whose citizenry constitute some of the most fundamentally religious on the planet and which has an historical tendency to assert itself in world matters, including involvement in the middle east in apparent support of biblical prophesy re: Israel. There is also a number of Isalamic fundamentalist countries in possession of atomic weaponry and which espouse religious doctrines and bald ambitions of world domination. A good example of the potential of the annexation of modern technology by people with bronze age beliefs might be the immolation and human sacrifice wrought in NYC nine years ago.
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  PSacramento

  On your comment about slaughters instigated on religious grounds vs numbers killed during the wars in the last century, one might associate the genocide of the Jews as religion-inspired, but the rest are the consequence of pathological leadership and ambition meeting 20th century technology (which by today's standards is crude). What is concerning is our modern world has a single nuclear superpower whose citizenry constitute some of the most fundamentally religious on the planet and which has an historical tendency to assert itself in world matters, including involvement in the middle east in apparent support of biblical prophesy re: Israel. There is also a number of Isalamic fundamentalist countries in possession of atomic weaponry and which espouse religious doctrines and bald ambitions of world domination. A good example of the potential of the annexation of modern technology by people with bronze age beliefs might be the immolation and human sacrifice wrought in NYC nine years ago.

  Well, the holocaust was an anti-religious attack if you wanna look at it from a religious POV.

  Extremissim is never a simple thing, the Tamil tigers that "invented" Suicide bombing are a secular organization and if we are too look at the sheer number of deaths inflicted by non-religious regimes like those of Satain, Mao, Pho and so many others, religion pales in comparison, it isn;t even in the same ball park.

  I don't liek palying number games with lives and that i s what we end up doing, but if one is so inlcined, Vox Day in his book "the irrational atheist" actually HAS the numbers and it is not a pretty picture in regards to secular regimes.

  Did you know that in one fell swoop in Russia, 200K priests were killed?

  Numbers are a horrible way to make a case for anything of this nature, but we can't turn a blind eye on secualr governments ( or atheist ones if one prefers) killing their own people, no more than we cna turn an eye on the abuses of religion.
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  Nickolas

  The Tamils are almost all Hindu, in a country that is dominated by Buddhists. I don't think that is a coincidence. Hitler was a spriritualist who in his writings claimed to be Catholic and even in the last years of the second world war was identified by his closest lieutenants as Catholic. He was also a pathological liar, but not an atheist in the strictest sense. The fascist movement, which evolved into Hitler's National Socialism, found its roots in the Catholic countries of Spain and Italy and was in historical fact sanctioned and even promoted by the Vatican. Stalin was a nutcase of a totally higher order and was undoubtedly the greatest atheist villain in history. He was a seminary dropout, but it is not known if his exposure to the rigours and deprivations of religious life contributed to his psychosis but one thing is abundantly clear is that he usurped the role of demigod and was worshipped as such even after his death. Perhaps we need a broader definition for religion.
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  PSacramento

  Will, the Tamil descibe themselves as a secular group.

  But you make valid points, I don't think one can remove the total infulence of religion on anyone, Stalin was rabid anti-religion, but had a religious uppbringing, just as some fundamentalist had atheist upbringings.

  Mao, Po and other had some buddhist infulence in their lives ( one assumes anyways), but I don't think that we can blame religion for what is not only done in its name that is the OPPOSITE of what it AIMS to do, but what is done in opposition to it.

  The blame has to lie on the people, but if we state that certain ideologies lead to violence, hate and intolerance and say that religion is one of them and use method A to prove that, then method A is also "ok" to prove that other ideologies do the same thing or worse, in the case of secular/atheistic ideologies of Mao, Po, Hitler, Stalin and so many others.