Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?

by Red Piller 443 Replies latest jw friends

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  Gary1914

  @djeggnog wrote in response to a post:

  This statement of yours borders reflects your ignorance and your unwillingness to be adjusted in your thinking, which is really the mental state of many Jehovah's Witnesses today that attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall as if they are members of a Christian club of some sort and warm the seats. These folks are among the ones about whom the apostle Paul spoke at 2 Timothy 3:7 , who are "always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth."

  First of all. djeggnog, you really need to get over yourself. I don't know what makes you think you are more intelligent than anyone here but it seems that you do. You are haughty and cannot give weight to any opinion other than your own. You seem to desperately want believe that what the Watchtower teaches is true. I feel for you, really, because I used to want that too.

  Is it possible for you to make your point without insulting people and questioning their intelligence? It is really getting tiredsome.

  Just because someone does not agree with you does not necessarily make them unintelligent. Did you ever stop to think that perhaps it is you who are not intelligent? After all it is you who believe and defend the convoluted and ever changing teachings of the Watchtower. It is you who defend that doctrines and dates and really, to me, that makes you unintelligent. I could understand your position if you were just one of those witnesses who go to the Kingdom Hall because they have "faith". But you have actually done some research and still believe that this is the "true" religion. Poor thing.

  Just for the record, the Watchtower is a made up religion. They even made up a God and call him Jehovah. Their God only listens to their prayers, he is keenly interested in how many hours you put in every month and how many meetings you attend. Your God is in a little box and is not the God of the Bible who emcompassess and cares for all of mankind. Your God is small and petty and does not want you to get an advanced education or to have associates and friends outside of the witness-club. Your God is glad when you turn out your sons and daughters because they do not want to be a part of the witness-club. Your God cannot make up his mind about doctrine and flip flops all over the place. This is a God you want to serve, then go do it.

  But do not come here with your ridiculous attitude and insults and believe that you are going to teach us poor ex-jws a few things. We've heard it all before and we know exactly where you are coming from.

  Please note that people are disfellowshipped for reasons other than sexual misconduct. Many more people voluntary leave the organization after opening their minds and doing some research.
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  Fadeout

  I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, and choose to disagree respectfully even with those who hold views I find offensive. I will gladly point out the flaws in their argument, though refrain from insulting their intelligence or personal character, as not only is this conduct unbecoming, but it is counterproductive when trying to make one's point of view accessible to an opponent. I also happen to believe that intellectual honesty demands such an approach.

  Many people are capable of comporting themselves in such a manner during even heated debate. Djeggnog, unfortunately, has proven not to be one of these. I have yet to find a devout JW who is.

  In the cosmology of the Witnesses, keep in mind, there is no valid reason for open disagreement with the Society, much less valid reason for leaving the organization or actually arguing in opposition to it. A person's actions invariably betray their "heart condition"-- that is, their basic "goodness" or "wickedness" and ultimately, worthiness or unworthiness of life. "Apostates" and "opposers" have bad motives; namely, to "shipwreck the faith" of faithful Christians. They are essentially cartoonish Emmanuel Goldsteins who, filled with hate, serve as channels for Satan and the demons to work through. Remember the warning of The Watchtower:

  "Satan's influence through the disfellowshipped member of the family will be to cause the other member or members of the family who are in the truth to join the disfellowshipped member in his course or in his position toward God's organization." -WT 11/15/52

  Thus, like King Saul, we have wholly turned against God and are now merely pawns of Satan. Should any faithful Christian feel the need to show respect, or even to be intellectually honest with such persons? Need a faithful servant of Jehovah seriously consider any argument such an evildoer might make? In other words... do any of us actually expect to get anything but Watchtower cultspeak in response to any question we might ask? I am reminded of how similarly I thought it appropriate to behave when I believed the WTS to be God's approved instrument.

  Despite his understandably condescending and arrogant demeanor, djeggnog did make an intriguing point I must respond to:

  "did you conclude that what you read in the Awake! magazine trumped what you read in the Bible? Yes or no? If your response to this question is "yes," do you agree that such a conclusion was foolhardy[?]"

  I sadly must answer yes to both questions. Being raised to believe that The Watchtower was God's approved instrument of communication with mankind, and that its interpretations came from God, as a child and a teenager I trusted those in positions of power to accurately convey the Bible's message, even if it seemed contradictory as to what I personally might interpret the Bible as saying as well as to the stark reality of the situation as the 1914 generation dwindled away. Fortunately, as I grew into my twenties, I developed a greater capacity for critical thinking, and developed a willingness to become aware of my own biases and consider views with which I was not comfortable. Thus, I have corrected the mistakes of my youth. I no longer believe the many unscriptural and unfactual teachings of the Watch Tower Society. I no longer condone their cavalier attitude toward truth. I am now fully aware of the fact that the organization's leaders lie about its history in order to enhance its image and cover embarrassings errors. And I am no longer willing to support an organization that tarnishes God's name with their false prophecy, bloodguilt, and lack of love.
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  lisaBObeesa

  Please don't be sorry. You're right; as you say, "[f]acts are facts." However, were you putting your faith in the words of mere men? Were you? In whom should you have been putting your faith?

  I was raised a JW. By the time I was 15 or 16 I had figured out that 1914 was false. I put my faith in God. I lost a few family members over it.

  You don't believe these words you quoted from the Awake! to have been "words of encouragement," but I'm sure that in hindsight, had those responsibility for signing off on the decision to include those words in the "masthead" of the Awake! that those words would not be there.

  What?

  But what harm did those words do to you or to anyone?

  If I was harmed or not has nothing to do with if the Watchtower is a false prophet.

  Did you tire from patiently waiting for the new world of righteousness to arrive? Really? Time ran out for Jehovah and Jesus for you were willing to go through the motions of being a faithful Christian solider until a particular date, and when that date came and went, that was it? Time's up for Jehovah and Jesus and the kingdom of God? You are one less person that will become a part of the nucleus of the new earth because Jehovah took too long, right? You are out to hurt your God? to make Him feel pain of heart because your heart hurts, is that right?

  I never said I believed in any date. In fact I DIDN'T. My point is that the Watchtower SPOKE FOR GOD, they said it was THE CREATOR'S PROMISE...and it was false. THEREFORE, they are false prophets.

  Even if I HAD believed the date stuff it wouldn't matter. It would not change the fact that the Jehovah's Witnesses are false prophets.

  I don't think such a strategy even works on human beings, but maybe it'll work on Jehovah. Of course, He made mankind, but you think Him to be clueless when it comes to human nature. I mean, He's never lived among us. Your angst at Him will certainly make Jehovah look inwardly at Himself and realize that He has to change. Maybe your strategy will work. Personally, I doubt it will have success, but maybe.

  Yeah..........I don't know who you are talking to here.

  Tell me this: When you were reading the Bible, not reading articles in WTS literature, but actually reading the Bible, do you remember reading somewhere in Matthew's gospel the words, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son. You do not know on what day your Lord is coming"? (Matthew 24:36, 42) Assuming your answer to my question here is "yes," then comparing what you read in the Bible with the words in that masthead --

  ....comparing what I read in the Bible with the words in that masthead, I conclude that the Watchtower Society are false prophets.
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  lisaBObeesa

  I never said that disfellowshipped persons aren't shunned in God's organization; of course they are.

  Right. What you said was:

  neither you nor they can find anywhere in any of our literature that indicates that a disfellowshipped or someone that disassociates

  themselves from God's organization is cut off from familial association with their own relatives.

  ..And then I quoted some of the countless places in your literature that indicates that a disfellowshipped or someone that disassociates themselves from "God's organization" is cut off from familial association with their own relatives.
• 

  The Finger

  Djeggnog,

  I always enjoy reading your posts.

  "Many Jehovah's Witnesses are professionals like myself and it would be unthinkable of any of us to suggest to anyone of our brothers or sisters that they should not pursue a college degree or a good education, and those who failed to do so were those that bought into the hype (translation: lie) that they were encouraged to do so in order to enter the full-time ministry, which is not true."

  My wife lived thousands of miles away from me whilst we were growing up. She could have gone to University and her teachers wanted her to. Her father who was a servant in the congregation had a discussion with her teacher about how depraved the Universities were and how she would not be going as she was a JW.

  Another sister, some years back now, when I explained why I could not support the JW teachings without prompting from myself said how she had missed out on an education due to her belief, a few months ago I ran into her and had a chat. She told me how little future they had, no pension and the house not paid up. Her children were her hope. Not the organization. She still believes.

  A few months ago I recieved an email from regarding Haiti and this is what it read.

  "We suspect not a few of our young brothers and sisters attending universities may have died when those buildings crashed to the grounds with everyone in them. One nice experience--one sister was scheduled to attend a lecture on pyschology n she decided she did not want to hear that stuff. As soon as she got outside the entire structure collapsed before her eyes! Visible proof where 'higher learning' takes you--right into the ground!! Now if any want to attend university--they will have to move to another country--as all their bldgs crashed to the ground!! And believe me--their parents will work to send them there--that is the god they have confidence in--Jehovah is kinda of a sideline one.. Very sad moments--"

  These viewpoints. Where did they get them from Djeggnog?

  These encouraging ideas that had have been printed in the magazines seem to have had a detrimental effect on many.
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  Eiben Scrood

  I think the elephant in the room is whether a God of love would play with people's emotions and lives this way. Just say it's true that the Watchtower is backed by Jehovah - would you want to worship a God that does this to people? That intentionally uses his holy spirit to influence the governing body to make these changes knowing that he's going to use this same spirit to change it again a few years later and in the meantime seriously affect millions of people who are trying their best to serve you?

  I know that's not a god I'd want to worship.
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  wasblind

  Lore says: people shouldn't be using IE anyway

  people use what they have , Lore
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  sabastious

  Eiben Scrood,

  That's a good point. It is a catch 22 though, because God's holy spirit cannot lie. So how could it be his holy spirit when the Witnesses told everyone that the 1995 generation was the "truth"

  Truth is the OPPOSITE of a lie. God, according to the Bible and WT theology CANNOT lie. There is NO WAY God was behind the last generation teachings because they have been superceded by the ones the succeeded them, and there is no good reason to believe that this current understanding will not be superceded by yet another teaching in 25 years.

  It is bunk, plain and simple end of f*cking story.

  -Sab
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  wasblind

  Amen to that Sab
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  sabastious

  God what a terribly useless debate. It's so damn simple.

  The WT is flying at the seat of their pants which, by itself is fine, but they demand that people accept it as truth or fall out of the ever fickle "God's Love(tm)"

  Hogwash!

  -Sab