@djeggnog wrote:
You cannot possibly know what I believe until you either [ask] me what I believe or you ask someone else, who is one of Jehovah's Witnesses (maybe, your wife) to tell you what we believe, because in this very thread, I'm hearing nonsense from former Jehovah's Witnesses that make the false accusation that we were making predictions as to when the end of the world when we were touting "1914-the generation that will not pass away," which is not true, and is conjecture on their part since their knowledge of the Bible was incomplete and they evidently thought that they could scheme their way to salvation by pretending to love God. Those that know Jehovah would never think that he or she would actually fool the Almighty. Only a fool would think that he or she would be successful in such an endeavor.
@lisaBObeesa wrote:
You are a shameless liar.
So what you saying to me here is that you believe your knowledge of the Bible to be complete? That you are not one that thought that you could scheme your way to salvation by pretending to love God so as to pull one on the Almighty, and by reason of my pointing out the truth about you, I'm a shameless liar? Ok, @lisaBObeesa, but if you don't mind so that I might better understand your accusation about us, tell me:
(1) Please provide the book, chapter and verse in the Bible where I would find the prophecy that God did not speak to which Jehovah's Witnesses have been pointing to and claiming that God had, in fact, spoken it? I ask because if Jehovah's Witnesses have ever articulated a prophecy and claimed that prophecy to have been a prophecy from God, then it stands to reason that anyone with a reasonable intelligence would have asked where in the Bible such a prophecy was recorded, book, chapter and verse. I'm hoping that you are willing to tell me, and if so, I have a second question in follow-up that I would like you to also answer:
(2) Assuming that you were willing to provide the book, chapter and verse pursuant to the previous question, please provide the basis for your allegation that this prophecy was fulfilled differently than the way in which Jehovah's Witnesses indicated it would undergo fulfillment (and by "differently" I mean that this prophecy did not come true).
Even active current JWs know that the JWs were predicting the end of the world before the generation of 1914 passed away.
What you say here is not true for the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses. You may have been guilty of making predictions that were not supported by God's word as to when Armageddon would arrive when you were one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and you may have been in association with some who persuaded you to this opinion, but I've never done this, for I shared with others how we understood Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 and neither have other Jehovah's Witnesses done this, for our providing such explanations is not the same as if we were using uncanny power and pushing ahead in cooperation with the demons. (1 Samuel 15:23) Were this the case, 55-year-olds in 1965 with a life expectancy of age 70 might have expected Armageddon to arrive before 1980, and it would really have been presumptuous for anyone calling himself or herself one of Jehovah's Witnesses to have been predicting a specific date for Armageddon, which you might have done, @lisaBObeesa, but the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses never did.
Jehovah's Witnesses had hope toward God that the generation of the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ described as a "modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries that [would] not pass away" before the conclusion of this system of things, but knowing as we do now that Jesus was not referring to this "modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries," but to the generation of the sign of Jesus' presence in saying about "this generation" that it would "by no means pass away" without all of the things that he had foretold taking place first, we have hope toward God that we are even closer now to the end of "this generation" of the sign of Jesus' presence.
Yes, @lisaBObeesa, it had been our hope that the number of these "modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries' that continue to survive during Jesus' presence could be used as a precursor as to when the end of the present system of things would occur, but we are now know that it is an impossibility for anyone to know the "day and hour," just as Jesus stated at Matthew 24:36. We didn't predict the end would occur at any given time, but we did misinterpret Jesus' reference to "this generation" at Matthew 24:34 as referring to those of the anointed that were alive when his presence began and would still be alive at the conclusion of this system of things.
The word "generation" refers to the period of time that began in 1914 when Jesus' presence would be discerned by his followers and ends at Armageddon, and not to the life span of anyone that may have been alive back in 1914 as Jehovah's Witnesses had once thought to have been the meaning of "generation." We now know that Jesus was saying that "this generation" to whom the sign of his invisible presence would be discerned would not pass away, that is to say, would not come to an end, until all of the things he said were destined to occur during the conclusion of the system of things did, in fact, occur.
@djeggnog wrote:
If you do not wish to answer the question I have asked you here, just don't answer it. [A] significant portion of my question was whether or not a 360-day lunar year averages 30 days per month. You [clearly] did not miss the thrust of the words "that each month averages 30 days"....
@TD wrote:
I'm sorry you don't feel that your question was answered directly.
Again you evaded my multi-parted question. It's clear to me that, for some unknown reason, you do not wish to respond to it, and I'm ok with that, @TD. I knew to whom I was speaking before I put those questions to you. It is clear to me that your intent here is to be argumentative with me and while I don't mind discussing the Bible with you, I do not want to argue with you, for I have absolutely no interest in doing this.
@djeggnog wrote:
No, "1914-the generation that will not pass away" was the hope of Jehovah's Witnesses based on our wrong understanding of what Jesus said at Matthew 24:34, but Jehovah's Witnesses would never pretend that we could predict the date when Armageddon will arrive, for Jesus said at Matthew 24:36 that "nobody knows" [that day and hour] ... only the Father." Also, we have yet to hear anyone declare that "peace and security" has been achieved, which event was foretold to occur before "sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them." (1 Thessalonians 5:3)
@Joey Jo-Jo
In the bottom of the last page of chapter 18 You Can Live Forever In Paradise Earth book it says "Some in this generation that lived in 1914 will see the end of this system of things and will survive [Armageddon] (book made in 1989)
Is this called old light or false prophecy?
There's a caption in chapter 18 in the Live Forever book that reads, "Some of the generation living in 1914 will see the end of the system of things and will survive it," but this is not a prophecy. It's an interpretation. In that same chapter 18, notice at paragraph 5 that Jesus' prophecy as to one aspect of the sign of his invisible presence found at Matthew 24:7 ("nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom") is quoted, and that what follows this aspect of Jesus' prophecy is our interpretation to the effect of how World War I and World War II represented the fulfillment of this prophecy beginning in 1914.
Also notice another feature of the sign of Jesus' invisible presence found at Luke 21:11 ("in one place after another pestilences") is quoted, and that what follows this particular aspect of Jesus' prophecy is our interpretation to the effect of how the Spanish flu was responsible for the deaths of some 21 million people, even as many more diseases, including cancer, has afflicted millions of people since 1914.
Again, our interpretations of Jesus' prophecies do not somehow transform our interpretations into prophecies themselves. Anyone that should accuse Jehovah's Witnesses of doing this would be woefully ignorant of the difference between a prophecy and an interpretation of a prophecy.
Essentially you are asking me whether the adjustment that was made in our understanding of Matthew 24:34 in the Watchtower dated February 15, 2008, and in the Watchtower dated April 15, 2010, is called "old light or false prophecy"? What it is called is "an adjustment."
@djeggnog
