Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org

by eric356 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I think it is important to remember that as Metatron said, the Borg is both religion and publishing company and two different groups of people run each side.

    The GB are almost exclusively doctrine pushers. The corporations are run by lawyers, presidents, and vice-presidents just like any other corporation.

    When combined, which is the tail and which is the dog? Usually, it seems like the corporate side is in charge. They let the GB do what they want doctrinally for the most part but when legal needs something done, they get the GB to rubber stamp it so that the rank and file will obey.

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    streets76 - I know the board has discussed the LDS model and I think that's a great example of how a wacky, high control sort of religion can reinvent themselves to be more mainstream, maintain high retention levels, and make tons of money yet still keep most of their non-mainstream beliefs. Their polygamy issue is similar to the WTS blood teaching. It's something so wacky that it offends the mainstream public.

    If GB 2.0 was smart, they would move in this direction. But eric brings out a good point that throws a wrentch in the works. They think the speak for God, that God is using them directly and approves of the current structure. So, the changes they've made from a doctrinal standpoint have had no way out. The positive (from a business standpoint) changes had more to do with their printing operations, consolidating branches and the like. That was low hanging fruit.

    There's still some of that to be had (pushing printing of KMs and study WTs to the congo level via pdf files, dumping the awake, etc) but they will run out of those types of profit improvements in the next 5-10 years. Will they drastically transform? It's kind of interesting to watch but remember, they'll do what they need to do to survive.

  • streets76
    streets76

    Doubting Bro, yes I agree, the whole "we speak for God" mindset is a hinderance for changing existing doctrine. But if they are going to survive long-term, they will need pull boat loads of "new light" out of the hat in the coming years. So why not new light that actually makes sense?

    With the present rate of drop-outs from the young born-ins, in a couple of generations the JWs will be a sad shell of their old selves. JW 2.0 is a way to prevent that.

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    Great analysis everyone!

    Streets, I have always thought that the WTS would start age specific Sunday school type classes on the weekend. Perhaps a half hour or so in the classroom and then an hour +/- in the field ministry. That would help retain their youth.

    Let's face it, without birthday parties, Sunday school, youth groups and a specific youth ministry the young ones aren't truly emotionally connecting. They are going through the motions. This seems to be catching up to them at some point which is why the retention rate is so low.

    ________

    I loved the point about one or two GB members getting it into their heads that they have been specially chosen to correct the thinking and direction of the organization. I would love it even more if those one or two were more hardcore - I believe the best way for the masses to wake up and leave the organization is for the organization to become even stricter and more controlling than it is. I don't want them to go mainstream and then have people stuck in a more comfortable place and thus never leave.

    I feel like I could see a couple of the GB2.0 doing something like that.

    ____________

    They may have to split their model for different cultures. They may have printing facilities in 3rd world areas and electronic distribution in 1st world areas. They seem to be pretty good about tailoring their message to specific types of people and culture.

  • streets76
    streets76

    Listener:

    the WTS would start age specific Sunday school type classes on the weekend. Perhaps a half hour or so in the classroom and then an hour +/- in the field ministry. That would help retain their youth.

    I think the last thing any JW youth wants is to go out in FS with the "I'm a dork" sign around their necks for all their friends to see. At least that's how I felt.

  • dozy
    dozy

    Interesting posts & analysis - thanks to all. The WTBTS doesn't really lend itself to any comparison with any international corporation , as its' leaders aren't subject to any disciplines from other businesses , shareholders or employees , and only marginally are affected by government regulations. Religious belief seems to transcend any kind of common sense or analysis - hence the Islamists who put explosives in their underpants & try to blow up planes.

    Maybe I'm being a bit luddite , but I think that the WTBTS MO of getting JWs to pay for literature and then go out and distribute it on the basis that they are doing "God's work" still has a lot of years left in it. There are a lot of tired old JWs around but there are enough 2nd / 3rd gens coming through to keep things going.

    There is evidence that the WTBTS has adjusted its financial model somewhat to reduce costs (scrapping twice monthly Watchtowers , paper back books , closed Bethels etc) so if the accountants have done their job there should be enough cash-flow to keep the whole show on the road. Sadly I don't see any fundamental change over the next 20 years or so.

  • eric356
    eric356

    Thanks for the feedback and discussion. I want to addresses what some of you have said.

    streets76 - I like the idea of making a sort of Watchtower U, and using it as a source of income. It's not hard to imagine a talk: "We've decided to consolidate all of our Schools into one facility to encourage growth in the faith. Now brothers, these facilities and training are not free. Would it be right to expect a good theocratic education and not help defray the costs to the Organization?" I don't think this school would be centered around anything like a School of Engineering. I think it would be based on the type of "learning" they do now: missionary training, preaching, basic Bible knowledge. Maybe they could have an MBA-lite for elders. Teach management, some basic accounting, how to run a meeting, some PR, etc. It could offset some of the brain drain and general incompetence of the lower level leadership and groom promising individuals for Bethel service. The possibility for "minoring" in some technical or practical skill also seems reasonable.

    I don't agree with the idea of "JW 2.0". The WT religion is not a mainstream product. The religions with high market share have fairly relaxed membership requirements and focus primarily on improving the quality of life for members. This market is already saturated by all the big players. The WT fills a specific niche: high-commitment, high-control, high-social cohesion. Each member gives up a lot to be a member: time, freedom, worldly relationships. In return they are part of a special "select" group that is very tight knit. The high levels of commitment demanded increases social pressure to conform and keeps everything together. It also eliminates free-loaders who would want to be part of a social group but don't put much back in. Everybody reinforces the faith of everyone else. Those who doubt and may mislead others are segregated and removed.

    These qualities make the WT religion successful in its market niche, but do prevent it from becoming mainstream. If you allowed birthdays, holidays and higher education it would destroy all the ways the WT has differentiated its product. It becomes just like any other mainstream religion. But the WT can't compete with mainstream faiths. These have better architecture, better (much better) music, long heritages that tie them to Western culture, and most people already have some family history with these religions. The WT product only appeals to a certain number of people, and that's fine for them. Also, they can't get rid of shunning. It's an integral part of maintaining high-social cohesion. If you allow the us/them line to blur too much, then the "specialness" of the group is diluted and people won't put as much effort into it. Going mainstream will destroy the WT if they do it. (Which means I hope they do, but don't think they will.) Additionally, while the WT is not a stranger to contradicting their past pronouncements, it would be a major reversal if they started embracing all the things and practices that they had previously denounced.

    Mad Sweeney - The interplay between corporate and the GB is very interesting, I wish we knew more about it. It makes sense that Legal is very important, as the WT knows it can't survive if it manages to piss off the wrong lawyers. However, doctrinal decisions by the GB have the most significant impact on how the membership grows and behaves. So even if corporate makes a lot of the organizational decisions, the freedom of the GB to declare what is The Truth is probably a trump card.

    Doubting bro - I also think that the LDS model is very successful for what it aims to do. It is high-control, and has unique beliefs that are not mainstream. I think the reason works so well for them is that they do not discourage success and ambition in "worldly" pursuits. It is an honorable thing to be a Mormon politician, businessperson, or even academic. The WT does not advocate, and even discourages all of these things. They also try to remain as separate from the world as possible. Everyone knows about JWs, but people do not know a lot about individual JWs (except certain pop singers and athletes). JWs are told NOT to get fame, riches, or honors from the world. This keeps them from being accepted by the rest of society. They remain an "other", which is exactly what the WT seems to want. It might help them to follow the LDS methods, but this would again entail rejecting most of their previous teachings regarding "being no part of this world."

    dozy - I use the corporate language because I think it helps us to understand how the WT operates. They do not have shareholders and they are not taxed (unfortunately). But they do have a "product", a market to "sell" it to, and a group of "customers" or members to appease. For this reason, I think it is largely appropriate to talk about the WT like any other corporation.

    I think the distribution of paper magazines and publications will continue - mostly in developing countries that lack the infrastructure for digital distribution. This is just another part of the developed/developing country conflict that the WT has to deal with. How much will a JW think they should pay for the digital magazines they received? Probably as much as kids think they should pay to download music, or people think they should pay to read online news, which is little or nothing.

    I don't think the WT is going to disappear. However, the changes they are faced with a large and critical enough that they are not going to be able to lazily float into the future just making minor corrections. They can't just rely on the momentum of the convinced rank and file.

  • neverendingjourney
    neverendingjourney

    The flaw that plagues a lot of the speculation on this board (in my opinion) is that we tend to view things from a rational perspective of people no longer indoctrinated in the WT belief system. Therefore, we tend to look at things from the vantage point of what "makes sense," or to put it another way, what a rational business/religious organization in a comparable position would do. That's a mistake.

    Most signs point to (again, in my opinion) the GB being delusional believers who honestly expect some version of their religious expectations to play out sometime soon. They're waiting on the Jehovah life-boat to come by and fix everything for them. That, of course, isn't going to happen. That's why I tend to think there is a strong possibility of something really goofy happening down the road in the sense of certain GB members getting desperate because the end never came.

    Now, there are indeed mixed signals coming from the top. Long gone are the days when Rutherford ruled with an iron-fist and all policy-making authority resided with one individual. It's clear to see that legal/political concerns are driving at least some of the policy decisions. The more you see practical, real-world concerns driving policy/doctrine, the more you can believe that the decision-makers have become more cyincal and pragmatic. I don't see that right now. However, if the more cynical types win control, it's very easy to see an LDS-like mainstreaming movement take foot because it makes practical sense. This would be a path that a rational, non-indoctrinated leadership would make. If the more delusional types win out (think Loesch), however, I think the future really is unpredictable.

  • streets76
    streets76

    Eric: I think you've hit on something that I and most of us here haven't fully understood or keep forgetting:

    The WT fills a specific niche: high-commitment, high-control, high-social cohesion. Each member gives up a lot to be a member: time, freedom, worldly relationships. In return they are part of a special "select" group that is very tight knit.

    So many of us want to "fix" JW 1.0, or convince our loved ones to leave it, that we've lost sight of the most obvious fact: They actually want to be a JW. (In some cases, they absolutely NEED to be a JW.)

    Those of us that managed to escape are just the walking wounded, doing the best we can. You can take the boy out of the witnesses, but you can never take the witness out of the boy. If only.

  • Juan Viejo2
    Juan Viejo2

    eric356 - you have a PM

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